We officially now have MALE, FEMALE and X

[CarveTheFive]

It’s rare indeed for there to be an XX in the 23rd spot without a vagina attached to the human. Same with XY and penises. If people want ownership of their gender that extends beyond genitalia that’s fine with me.

If you expect biology as a field to bend to your psychology you have something in common with creationists though. There’s how it is and how people want it to be.

[I_am_not_mafia]

You were saying:

How many times have you been concerned about someone else's chromosomes?

Never.

Also there are many, many people out there who have completely different chromosonal arrangements and you still see them as either male or female.

No I don’t.

I was demonstrating that you are wrong. How common or rare it is, is beside the point.

Male and female is more than just what you have for your 23rd chromosome.

There are people out there who are judged by society to be male or female who do not fall into your simplistic binary description of sex and gender despite what you say.

[CarveTheFive]

simplistic binary description of sex

Actually, sex really is simple and binary. You’re convoluting the subject with outliers to fit your social agenda. I’ve already given myself an out by stating at the get go that biology isn’t always neat and that I’m happy to let individuals define themselves in terms of fluid gender. Still you want to paint me into a corner with implications that I’m intolerant or aligned with a bigoted ideology so have at it. All your twisting and turning might win a debate. I don’t care. I’m still right about the chromosomes and people who care to be honest about it will acknowledge the truth.

[WinterHold]

To me personally, I think it's very old news, very ancient too, I mean even before the discovery of genes it's known that humans can be a mixture of the two main genders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphroditus

Hermaphroditus, the two-sexed child of Aphrodite and Hermes (Venus and Mercury) had long been a symbol of androgyny or effeminacy, and was portrayed in Greco-Roman art as a female figure with male genitals.[4]

It's hilarious and funny to immense levels to have populations so arrogant to ignore this face that even ancient Greeks knew.
So a Greek aged 3000 years might be smarter than a modern douchbag eating chips and playing guitar hero.

If that's a fact known since the times of ancient Greece, then how didn't modern governments acknowledged this and gave people who fall under this the gender "X" ??

I think I know why: and it's the same reason giving dictators the freedom to kill their people, gives assholes the right to corrupt, gives all countries the right to develop atomic bombs.

Give people their rights I would say; and stop mutilating what you don't like.

[Angrboda]

Two-Spirit (also two spirit or, occasionally, twospirited) is a modern, pan-Indian, umbrella term used by some indigenous North Americans to describe certain people in their communities who fulfill a traditional third-gender (or other gender-variant) ceremonial role in their cultures. While most people mistakenly associate the term with "LGBT Native", the term and identity of two-spirit "does not make sense" unless it is contextualized within a Native American or First Nations framework and traditional cultural understanding. The term was adopted by consensus in 1990 at an Indigenous lesbian and gay international gathering to encourage the replacement of the outdated, and now seen as inappropriate, anthropological term berdache.

"Two Spirit" is not interchangeable with "LGBT Native American" or "Gay Indian"; this title differs from most western, mainstream definitions of sexuality and gender identity in that it is not a modern, self-chosen term of personal sexual or gender "identity"; rather, it is a sacred, spiritual and ceremonial role that is recognized and confirmed by the Elders of the Two Spirit's ceremonial community. While some have found the term a useful tool for intertribal organizing, not all Native cultures conceptualize gender or sexuality this way, not all tribes have ceremonial roles for these people, and the tribes who do usually use names in their own languages. While pan-Indian terms are not always appropriate or welcome, the term has generally received more acceptance and use than the term it replaced.

Third and fourth gender roles traditionally embodied by two-spirit people include performing work and wearing clothing associated with both men and women. Not all tribes/nations have rigid gender roles, but, among those that do, the spectrum that has usually been documented is that of four genders: feminine woman, masculine woman, feminine man, masculine man.

Wikipedia || Two-Spirit

[Anomalocaris]

simplistic binary description of sex

Actually, sex really is simple and binary. You’re convoluting the subject with outliers to fit your social agenda. I’ve already given myself an out by stating at the get go that biology isn’t always neat and that I’m happy to let individuals define themselves in terms of fluid gender. Still you want to paint me into a corner with implications that I’m intolerant or aligned with a bigoted ideology so have at it. All your twisting and turning might win a debate. I don’t care. I’m still right about the chromosomes and people who care to be honest about it will acknowledge the truth.

Being right about organic chemistry doesn’t make you right about sociology.

[CarveTheFive]

I agree.

[CapnAwesome]

23rd Chromosome  

XX = Female
XY = Male

I understand that biology isn’t always that neat but pretending you’re something you’re not doesn’t make it so.

Male and female is more than just a different chromosome.

And most of that different chromosome isn't even concerned with sex differences.

How many times have you been concerned about someone else's chromosomes?

Also there are many, many people out there who have completely different chromosonal arrangements and you still see them as either male or female. The entire population can't be divided into XX or XY.

Male and female is about more than just chromosomes, but it's also about more than an individual decision about identity. That makes far less sense than relying on chromosomes since we can't know why the person is deciding to identify as a different gender than their chromosomal one. What's going on in their brain? It makes the whole definition of gender pointless. There has to be a scientific basis of gender and chromosomes and genitals seem like an obvious place to start, although they are not a stopping point, necessarily.

The whole argument I think has the wrong focus, because the focus should be about how you treat someone. A MtF transgender wants to be treated like a woman, but women by and large want to be treated equally. So if you treat people as individuals already, it makes the whole discussion seem weird and pointless. Identify as you want, I'll judge you as an individual because that's how I try to judge everyone.

[John V]

The most thorough existing research finds intersex people to constitute an estimated 1.7% of the population*, which makes being intersex about as common as having red hair (1%-2%).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12476264

Abstract
Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.

[Angrboda]

Development doesn't always align neatly with genotype, even when the latter is clear. Thus the insufficiency of the biology = sex view.