We officially now have MALE, FEMALE and X

[CarveTheFive]

It’s rare indeed for there to be an XX in the 23rd spot without a vagina attached to the human. Same with XY and penises. If people want ownership of their gender that extends beyond genitalia that’s fine with me.

If you expect biology as a field to bend to your psychology you have something in common with creationists though. There’s how it is and how people want it to be.

[I_am_not_mafia]

You were saying:

How many times have you been concerned about someone else's chromosomes?

Never.

Also there are many, many people out there who have completely different chromosonal arrangements and you still see them as either male or female.

No I don’t.

I was demonstrating that you are wrong. How common or rare it is, is beside the point.

Male and female is more than just what you have for your 23rd chromosome.

There are people out there who are judged by society to be male or female who do not fall into your simplistic binary description of sex and gender despite what you say.

[CarveTheFive]

simplistic binary description of sex

Actually, sex really is simple and binary. You’re convoluting the subject with outliers to fit your social agenda. I’ve already given myself an out by stating at the get go that biology isn’t always neat and that I’m happy to let individuals define themselves in terms of fluid gender. Still you want to paint me into a corner with implications that I’m intolerant or aligned with a bigoted ideology so have at it. All your twisting and turning might win a debate. I don’t care. I’m still right about the chromosomes and people who care to be honest about it will acknowledge the truth.

[WinterHold]

[Angrboda]

[Anomalocaris]

simplistic binary description of sex

Actually, sex really is simple and binary. You’re convoluting the subject with outliers to fit your social agenda. I’ve already given myself an out by stating at the get go that biology isn’t always neat and that I’m happy to let individuals define themselves in terms of fluid gender. Still you want to paint me into a corner with implications that I’m intolerant or aligned with a bigoted ideology so have at it. All your twisting and turning might win a debate. I don’t care. I’m still right about the chromosomes and people who care to be honest about it will acknowledge the truth.

Being right about organic chemistry doesn’t make you right about sociology.

[CarveTheFive]

I agree.

[CapnAwesome]

23rd Chromosome  

XX = Female
XY = Male

I understand that biology isn’t always that neat but pretending you’re something you’re not doesn’t make it so.

Male and female is more than just a different chromosome.

And most of that different chromosome isn't even concerned with sex differences.

How many times have you been concerned about someone else's chromosomes?

Also there are many, many people out there who have completely different chromosonal arrangements and you still see them as either male or female. The entire population can't be divided into XX or XY.

Male and female is about more than just chromosomes, but it's also about more than an individual decision about identity. That makes far less sense than relying on chromosomes since we can't know why the person is deciding to identify as a different gender than their chromosomal one. What's going on in their brain? It makes the whole definition of gender pointless. There has to be a scientific basis of gender and chromosomes and genitals seem like an obvious place to start, although they are not a stopping point, necessarily.

The whole argument I think has the wrong focus, because the focus should be about how you treat someone. A MtF transgender wants to be treated like a woman, but women by and large want to be treated equally. So if you treat people as individuals already, it makes the whole discussion seem weird and pointless. Identify as you want, I'll judge you as an individual because that's how I try to judge everyone.

[John V]

[Angrboda]

Development doesn't always align neatly with genotype, even when the latter is clear. Thus the insufficiency of the biology = sex view.