My decoversion and back to Islam.

[Brian37]

Can you give an example of a premise I have not provided reasoning and justification for?

I know Ann McCarthy will someday fall in love with me.

My premise you ask?

She is female, I desire her, so therefore she will.


MK keep reading that until you get it. It is the same problem every religious apologist of every religion has. Simpy wanting something to be true, does not make it true. If It worked like that Ann McCarthy would be my wife. 

I am being fair to you because I'd argue the same with any Christian, any Jew, any Buddhist, any Hindu.

The majority of the world has some sort of religious club they belong to. Most humans get sold the mythology of their parents long before they can formulate critical thinking skills. Most humans defend that which is local. 

This is bad logic.

Ann McCarthy will love me<= Bullshit formula in my head<=She loves me

Religion works the same way.

Club/deity<= Work backwords to justify<=I am right.

It isn't going to kill you to consider you got it wrong. Just like I am 52 and not married to Ann McCarthy.

[OakTree500]

But the only "proofs" you have, are old books full of crazy stories. Outside of that, you have ZERO things. 

In fairness to Mystic, he is presenting an argument based largely upon a priori reasoning, which I believe he traces to the Quran or Muslim theological tradition.  Yes he has strayed into the "mah book is special" territory at times, often as a result of unsuccessfully presenting this other argument, but it would be unfair to Mystic to characterize his argument as solely being based on the existence of the Quran and claims within it.  He has and does make what is technically an ontological argument and in so doing is innocent of the charge that the only proof he has is a bunch of crazy stories.  He just so far hasn't been able to convince anyone that his argument is sound.

(He has posted a surah or two which seem to reference the themes discussed in his argument, and if there is a larger body of discussion of it within Islamic tradition, I have to wonder why he doesn't reference that as support for his argument.  Given that the relationship between the ideas in the surahs he has quoted and the arguments he presents is rather oblique, I suspect the discussion of it within Islam isn't particularly more compelling than Mystic's word salad version, and likely leans toward the my book is true because it's magic argument, which has been disputed at length.  That's an argument drawn from the Quran itself, that the Quran is of such a character and quality that only a divine source could have been behind it.  In general, that's an argument which has failed to convince anyone but Muslims, so it's something of a non-starter, but I have seen Mystic appeal to it when his other arguments are greeted with skepticism.  That, and a lot of poisoning the well.)

Fair enough. I'm new here, so maybe I'm only getting the tail end of MK and his shenanigans, but right now he's coming across very "I don't have to prove shit to you" in the same way many theists speak, so i presumed he was very much of the same clan of "LOLZ LOOK AT MA STORIZ" when it came to proof.

MK - If you were to dial it down a bit, and produce the supposed evidence, I'd be happy to check it out.

[The Grand Nudger]

Can you give an example of a premise I have not provided reasoning and justification for?

I know Ann McCarthy will someday fall in love with me.

My premise you ask?

She is female, I desire her, so therefore she will.

If Anne McCarthy didn't fall in love with you, there would be no objective value.  That would be bad™...so let's just go ahead and assert that Anne McCarthy will fall in love with you!

[Minimalist]

Thank you, my friend, for putting this all together. I look forward to reading about your journey.

Suck up. 

Hey, you know.... birds of a feather.

[Anomalocaris]

Suck up. 

Hey, you know.... birds of a feather.

Thick as thieves until the next crusade or jihad.