Convert me if you can

[Rayaan]

If you were born in India you would be trying to convince me that Hinduism is the truth, and you would hate Islam.

I doubt it, not to mention that Islam is the second largest religion in India.
Besides, how can a statue be divine if it easily breaks into pieces after falling onto the floor?

[annatar]

Besides, how can a statue be divine if it easily breaks into pieces after falling onto the floor?

That is just muslim's silly understanding about pagan god statues.. They don't believe the statue is divine but it represents a divine being. And you are not so different.. You believe hacer-ul esved is a divine stone from the heaven(the thing that looks like a giant vagina.) and kissing it, you believe kaba is the house of god etc.

[KichigaiNeko]

Nice bit of art work there annatar...did they steal it from the Guggheim ?

I could be crass and ask which one of muhammads "wives" posed for it but I doubt it was so?

[annatar]

Nice bit of art work there annatar...did they steal it from the Guggheim ?

I could be crass and ask which one of muhammads "wives" posed for it but I doubt it was so?

Lol.
seriously, that stone had been revered by polytheists before islam. And it was really important for people even muhammad couldn't dare to curse it like he did every other symbol of polytheists.
I believe that stone and kaaba has something to do with mediterranean goddess Cybele(you can see that it sounds so similar with kaaba, and kiblah) In any case, that stone is a fragment of past beliefs of arabs. Just like moon symbols at the top of the mosques.(For Al-ilah the god of the moon which is now called allah )

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

If you were born in India you would be trying to convince me that Hinduism is the truth, and you would hate Islam.

I doubt it, not to mention that Islam is the second largest religion in India.
Besides, how can a statue be divine if it easily breaks into pieces after falling onto the floor?

I think you missed the point,which is that religious belief is more an accident of birth than anything else.Had you been born into a Hindu family,you would be a Hindu today, not a Muslim.

Your comment about the statue is simplistic and indicates a distressing ignorance of Hinduism. Before making more fatuous comments, I suggest actually reading some Hindu texts.


If you read nothing else, I suggest "The Bhagavad Gita" (The Song of God) .

I should also point out there is some disagreement among Muslim scholars about whether Hindus should be included as 'People of the Book" and accorded Dhimmi status.





00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

The Bhagavad Gītā (Sanskrit: भगवद्गीता, IPA: [ˈbʱəɡəʋəd̪ ɡiːˈtɑː], Song of God), also more simply known as Gita, is a Hindu scripture produced from the colloquy given by Sri Krishna to Arjuna during the Kurukshetra War. Its philosophies and insights are intended to reach beyond the scope of religion and to humanity as a whole . It is at times referred to as the "manual for mankind" and has been highly praised by not only prominent Indians such as Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi but also Aldous Huxley, Albert Einstein, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Carl Jung and Herman Hesse.[1][2] It is considered among the most important texts in the history of literature and philosophy.[3] The Bhagavad Gita comprises exactly 700 verses, and is a part of the Mahabharata. The teacher of the Bhagavad Gita is Lord Krishna, who is revered by Hindus as a manifestation of God (Parabrahman) itself,[3] and is referred to within as Bhagavan, the Divine One.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_gita

[KichigaiNeko]

---

Nice bit of art work there annatar...did they steal it from the Guggheim ?

I could be crass and ask which one of muhammads "wives" posed for it but I doubt it was so?

Lol.
seriously, that stone had been revered by polytheists before islam. And it was really important for people even muhammad couldn't dare to curse it like he did every other symbol of polytheists.
I believe that stone and kaaba has something to do with mediterranean goddess Cybele(you can see that it sounds so similar with kaaba, and kiblah) In any case, that stone is a fragment of past beliefs of arabs. Just like moon symbols at the top of the mosques.(For Al-ilah the god of the moon which is now called allah )

---

[Rayaan]

Your comment about the statue is simplistic and indicates a distressing ignorance of Hinduism. Before making more fatuous comments, I suggest actually reading some Hindu texts.

Sorry, then I'll take back what I said about the statues.

Maybe the idols are a representation of a single god because I've heard some people say that Hinduism originally started off as a monotheistic religion.

Hinduism is a diverse system of thought with beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, atheism, agnosticism, gnosticism among others; and its concept of God is complex and depends upon each particular tradition and philosophy. It is sometimes referred to as henotheistic (i.e., involving devotion to a single god while accepting the existence of others), but any such term is an overgeneralization.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

[KichigaiNeko]

The argument is that Islam is not motheistic... what are you doing with angels???

[reverendjeremiah]

Sorry, then I'll take back what I said about the statues.

Maybe the idols are a representation of a single god because I've heard some people say that Hinduism originally started off as a monotheistic religion.

Not really sure if that is the case. I think it is more than likely a conglomeration of several different tribal deities. Some tribes may have had one deity (be it male or female), others more. Typically religions, in my opinion, usually have one supreme male and one supreme female deities for creators, and then usually some sort of "punisher" deity to torture those who have been bad, went against radition, or waged war against the "true" tribe. Its rare, in my opinion, for a tribe to have a single deity all by itself without angels, demons, devils, saints, god sons and daughters, spirits, etc..

But I emphasise that is merely my opinion, and will not use it as an argument for or against religion.

Outside of my opnion..how can Islam claim to be polytheistic when they claim Iblis, Gabriel, Djinn, Efrit, and even deify Mohammad? To me a monotheistic relilgion would not need help meet added to their creator deity. I will also point out that Allah demanded that all of creation and the angels worship Adam and Eve, and Iblis refused. If Allah is so adamant about there only being a single god, why did he command worship of adam and eve?

---

Lets discuss the obvious contradictions in the Quran:

Does Allah lead people astray?

[yes he does]
17:97-98
As for him whom He sendeth astray, for them thou wilt find no protecting friends beside Him, and We (WE?! Allah is speaking of himself in the plural again. He does that sometimes. Maybe there is more than one Allah?) shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations. (our revelations? How many allahs are there? Also Allah is such a prick saying he will turn up the torture for those he wants to torture more than just regular torturing. Allah the barbarian)
[no he doesnt]
9:115
It was never Allah's (part) that He should send a folk astray.
----

Can Allah do anything?

[yes he can]
35:1
Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
[no he cant]
6:100-101
Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?
----

What was man created from?

Water
And He it is Who hath created man from water... 25:54

Allah hath created every animal of water. 24:45

A Clot
In the name of thy Lord Who createth ... man from a clot. 96:1-2

Clay or Mud
He it is Who hath created you from clay. 6:2

We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered.... 15:26

He began the creation of man from clay. 32:7

When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire. 38:71

He created man of clay like the potter's. 55:14

Dust
He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. 3:59

And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, ranging widely! 30:20

Allah created you from dust.... 35:11

A drop of fluid
He hath created man from a drop of fluid. 16:4

Nothing
Doth not man remember that We created him before, when he was naught? 19:67
----
Thats good for now. Also notice how Allah refers to himself as "we" every now and then. I guess the "oneness" of god ISNT very pronounced in the quran like our resident muslim keeps suggesting.

[Rayaan]

Outside of my opnion..how can Islam claim to be polytheistic when they claim Iblis, Gabriel, Djinn, Efrit, and even deify Mohammad? To me a monotheistic relilgion would not need help meet added to their creator deity. I will also point out that Allah demanded that all of creation and the angels worship Adam and Eve, and Iblis refused. If Allah is so adamant about there only being a single god, why did he command worship of adam and eve?

1. In Islam, there's only one God (Allah).
2. The angels only carry out the duties as commanded by God but they are not equal to nor superior than God.
3. The angels were not demanded to "worship" Adam and Eve. They were told to prostrate to them only to show respect to Allah's creation.

17:97-98
As for him whom He sendeth astray, for them thou wilt find no protecting friends beside Him, and We (WE?! Allah is speaking of himself in the plural again. He does that sometimes. Maybe there is more than one Allah?) shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations. (our revelations? How many allahs are there? Also Allah is such a prick saying he will turn up the torture for those he wants to torture more than just regular torturing. Allah the barbarian)

Allah leads astray only those who do not intend or want to be guided (because they don't believe in Him in the first place). Not a contradiction.

35:1
Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
[no he cant]
6:100-101
Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?

The last verse is pointing out the absurdity of the idea that Allah has a child, because He is not like human beings. It's not talking about His abilities.

What was man created from?

Some verses say that we were made from clay (earth), from dust, and from water.
But all of those are true because we know that both water and the minerals in the soil are important ingredients for life on earth.

See this: Is Man Created from Clay?

Also notice how Allah refers to himself as "we" every now and then.

There is nothing wrong with saying "we" if Allah is referring to Himself and the angels in a collective manner. I don't think it undermines Him as a single Creator.