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My proofs for Islam
RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 18, 2018 at 2:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(November 18, 2018 at 2:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I don’t think that belief in god is a properly basic belief, nor do I think your assertion that there exists a true, perfectly objective self is a properly basic belief either.  Properly basic beliefs don’t require justification for being believed, but you still have to justify why you believe it’s a properly basic belief in the first place. I dont think you can do that. In terms of modern foundationalism, at least from what I understand if it, a belief would be qualify a properly basic if there was no way it could be wrong.  Your assertion fails on that point, at least.

Ok, thanks for letting me know.  If God exists and we have an objective reality to who we are in his sight, do you think it's possible in that case, that it would be a properly basic vision of the self to know we objectively exist and not only that, but can only do so in his sight?

I’m not sure what you mean here.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 18, 2018 at 3:47 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(November 18, 2018 at 2:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Ok, thanks for letting me know.  If God exists and we have an objective reality to who we are in his sight, do you think it's possible in that case, that it would be a properly basic vision of the self to know we objectively exist and not only that, but can only do so in his sight?

I’m not sure what you mean here.

I mean the two facts discussed, can you see if God exists, that they both can perceived in a properly basic way.

1) We objectively have value and psychological form that exists in a concrete measurement.
2) That only God can keep, maintain and see that possibly and nothing else can possibly do it.


If he exists and that was reality, what makes it hard it to perceive rationally and in first hand intuitive knowing way? Why can't we know that about ourselves if this was reality, is what I am asking.
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RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 1) We objectively have value and psychological form that exists in a concrete measurement.
This may or may not be true...but as it has no sufficient or necessary relationship to the existence of any god it cannot be used in an mt or mp to that effect.

Quote:2) That only God can keep, maintain and see that possibly and nothing else can possibly do it.
A bare assertion which, right or wrong, changes nothing about the modifying proposition to which it has been leveraged in your invalid argument.

I think that it's unfortunate that you've not allowed yourself to have that other conversation, that we were having. This may shield the religious beliefs that others have used to prey upon you..but it doesn't help you in the slightest.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 18, 2018 at 3:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(November 18, 2018 at 3:47 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I’m not sure what you mean here.

I mean the two facts discussed, can you see if God exists, that they both can perceived in a properly basic way.

1) We objectively have value and psychological form that exists in a concrete measurement.
2) That only God can keep, maintain and see that possibly and nothing else can possibly do it.


If he exists and that was reality, what makes it hard it to perceive rationally and in first hand intuitive knowing way? Why can't we know that about ourselves if this was reality, is what I am asking.

May I ask a question in response?  Why do you feel this need for objectivity about your personhood?  Why is it, in your own mind, people need to be quantified and measured?  Why are you so stuck on this notion of a concrete ideal of yourself existing in some form? Why does that matter so much to you?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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RE: My proofs for Islam
Those are good questions. I will reflect and try to give a good answer.
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RE: My proofs for Islam
And now, for an alternative point of view.....


http://freethoughtnation.com/ex-muslim-i...d-of-crap/



Quote:I eventually sat down and read the Quran in English to understand it better and its supporting Hadiths. By the end if it all, I was so pissed that I had wasted a significant part of my life believing in this load of crap. For the life of me, I could not understand how anyone in his or her right mind could follow, let alone treat someone like Mohammed as almost a demi-God.

Quite frankly, I was ashamed, and a part of me still is for being such a fool. I soon started researching religion, and it was not long before I found this website and many others like it, which helped to clear a lot of the questions that I had.
While I am not an atheist, as I do believe that there are too many unexplained phenomenons in this world to discount a creator, I will happily admit that I simply do not know. What I do know is that the sooner organized stupidity which some call religion is removed from this world, the better.

I do hold a particular disdain for the religion of Islam, as I believe that it is as evil as it gets. Islam is, as I like to put it, Christianity on steroids. There is nothing rational or peaceful about it, and anybody saying it is is deluded and in need of serious help.
—Reaaz Ali

I'd like Reaaz to join up!
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RE: My proofs for Islam
(November 18, 2018 at 5:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: And now, for an alternative point of view.....


http://freethoughtnation.com/ex-muslim-i...d-of-crap/



Quote:I eventually sat down and read the Quran in English to understand it better and its supporting Hadiths. By the end if it all, I was so pissed that I had wasted a significant part of my life believing in this load of crap. For the life of me, I could not understand how anyone in his or her right mind could follow, let alone treat someone like Mohammed as almost a demi-God.

Quite frankly, I was ashamed, and a part of me still is for being such a fool. I soon started researching religion, and it was not long before I found this website and many others like it, which helped to clear a lot of the questions that I had.
While I am not an atheist, as I do believe that there are too many unexplained phenomenons in this world to discount a creator, I will happily admit that I simply do not know. What I do know is that the sooner organized stupidity which some call religion is removed from this world, the better.

I do hold a particular disdain for the religion of Islam, as I believe that it is as evil as it gets. Islam is, as I like to put it, Christianity on steroids. There is nothing rational or peaceful about it, and anybody saying it is is deluded and in need of serious help.
—Reaaz Ali

I'd like Reaaz to join up!

Yo, he was just reading it wrong. 😉
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply
RE: My proofs for Islam
From page 26 of Robert Price's Holy Fable:  Vol. 1


Quote:Muslim traditionists used to document the validity of hadith, ostensibly the word-of-mouth tales of what Prophet Muhammad did and said, in the same way, by citing long chains of attestation:  "I got it from A, who got it from B, who got it from C," and so all the way to the Prophet.  Of course, all of them were fabrications.


I imagine that Price would have an equally dismal view of the koran.
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