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Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
#11
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
Near Death Experience


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/spec...448489.stm


Quote:Blackmore wrote that in 2004 but, as noted above, in 2006 scientists demonstrated brain activity in someone in a vegetative state, which is not identical to a flat EEG but which indicates that some machines might detect  brain activity while others do not.* Thus, those researchers who claim that their patients have memories of experiences they had when they were dead (as Dr. Michael Saborn does of musician Pam Reynolds) may be mistaken. Just because their machines don't register anything cannot be taken as proof positive that a person is dead, nor can it be taken as proof positive that the patient isn't aware, on some level, of what is going on around her. Unconscious patients may hear what surgeons and nurses are saying, even if the hospital machines aren't registering any brain activity.*

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#12
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 18, 2019 at 3:58 pm)Jobin Wrote: Now, if her brain was really in this state and even skeptic doctors are baffled by her being able to tell them what happened, does this prove her soul left her body, or that she has a soul?

Travis Walton claimed to have been abducted by aliens:

Wikipedia -- Travis Walton UFO incident

Do you believe his story?
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#13
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
OP, believe what you want to believe. I'll never believe any reported NDE experience as evidence for a soul or after life. 

It's simply unexplained brain/mind activity around an event that may or may not have occurred during the so called NDE.
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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#14
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 19, 2019 at 1:30 pm)wyzas Wrote: OP, believe what you want to believe. I'll never believe any reported NDE experience as evidence for a soul or after life. 

It's simply unexplained brain/mind activity around an event that may or may not have occurred during the so called NDE.

It's worse than that; Professor Sam Parnia, who is sympathetic to Cartesian Dualism, has tried to find evidence for the "soul":

Wikipedia -- AWARE study

He didn't find any; kind of like looking for the "poo" from Big Foot.  None has been found because BF does not exist, except in the imaginations of those who keep looking for him.

In this respect, absence of evidence is evidence of absence, at least as far as the late Pam Reynold's claims.
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#15
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 19, 2019 at 7:45 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(January 18, 2019 at 3:58 pm)Jobin Wrote: Now, if her brain was really in this state and even skeptic doctors are baffled by her being able to tell them what happened, does this prove her soul left her body, or that she has a soul?

Travis Walton claimed to have been abducted by aliens:

Wikipedia -- Travis Walton UFO incident

Do you believe his story?

That's the trouble, innit?  These are claims.  I can claim to be King Of The Potato People.  The claim is not subject to dispute, since you aren't going to find any of my loyal subjects to interrogate.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#16
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 19, 2019 at 2:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(January 19, 2019 at 7:45 am)Jehanne Wrote: Travis Walton claimed to have been abducted by aliens:

Wikipedia -- Travis Walton UFO incident

Do you believe his story?

That's the trouble, innit?  These are claims.  I can claim to be King Of The Potato People.  The claim is not subject to dispute, since you aren't going to find any of my loyal subjects to interrogate.

Boru

Read the article; some of Mr. Walton's companions saw the alien saucer.
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#17
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 19, 2019 at 2:56 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(January 19, 2019 at 2:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That's the trouble, innit?  These are claims.  I can claim to be King Of The Potato People.  The claim is not subject to dispute, since you aren't going to find any of my loyal subjects to interrogate.

Boru

Read the article; some of Mr. Walton's companions saw the alien saucer.

No, some of Mr. Walton's companions claimed they saw an alien saucer.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#18
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
First of all, why is there an automatic jump to the soul as soon as we can't explain something like this? You're basically saying "If I can prove something is not-A, then it must be B." Just because you can prove what something is not does not automatically prove what is it. That only works if we KNOW there are only two options and we KNOW what both those options are. Like a traditional light switch. If you can prove the switch is "not off" it is safe to assume that the switch is "on". What you're doing is working with a dimmer switch, and by proving that the switch is "not off" you then assume the switch must be at 100% power, even though there is also 1% -  99% power in addition to 100%.

Maybe it's not a soul that leaves the body. What if when your brain is put into a this deep of a state of unconsciousness, it experiences a time anomaly. Maybe from your reference frame nothing left your body, but instead you are really there and observing it from a different temporal perspective. That wouldn't require any god or any soul.
And if that idea sounds too ridiculous, why would a soul sound any better? Especially since all we've learned about time so far. It does get all wonky and wibbly-wobbly when you really observe it, and best of all, we already know that (at least to some extent) it exists, unlike a soul.
[Image: 2yn33ti.jpg]
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#19
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 19, 2019 at 3:07 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(January 19, 2019 at 2:56 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Read the article; some of Mr. Walton's companions saw the alien saucer.

No, some of Mr. Walton's companions claimed they saw an alien saucer.

Boru

Pam Reynolds was in the same category, someone who claimed something beyond the natural World.

It snowed where I live this morning (eastern Iowa); I saw a snow plow that went down my street at least 2 times around 6 AM CST, but after that, none have come back, as large portions of the empty street remain unplowed.  Does anyone here doubt my claim?
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#20
RE: Question about Pam Reynolds famous Near Death Experience
(January 19, 2019 at 3:44 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Pam Reynolds was in the same category, someone who claimed something beyond the natural World.

It snowed where I live this morning (eastern Iowa); I saw a snow plow that went down my street at least 2 times around 6 AM CST, but after that, none have come back, as large portions of the empty street remain unplowed.  Does anyone here doubt my claim?

Not really, but it's not on the same level as "soul" or "NDE". There are no additional ramifications if I believe or not. If you claim did have more serious implications (like alien snow plow abduction) then I'd certainly be questioning your claim.
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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