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If it wasn't for religion
#11
RE: If it wasn't for religion
The idea that religious belief works to compensate for stressors and allow one to be happier than one would be without it seems to make psychodynamic sense, on the theory that the mind is populated by forces counter-balancing one another to result in some overall level. Unfortunately this view neglects such things as the hedonic treadmill, evidence showing we don't have realistic appraisals of the environment, and so forth, all of which lean in the direction of establishing that the mind seeks a comfortable and functional level, independent of the specifics of the external environment (stressors) and internal environment (beliefs and attitudes). So, while the idea that religious belief provides compensation for stressors that otherwise go uncompensated without it seems to be false. Prostitutes in India tend to be just as happy as rich people in Brooklyn, and all other factors being equal, those who lack those religious beliefs are just as happy as those who have them. The tricky part is the all things being equal part, as minority stress and stress coming from comparisons between one's self and others may make things not as equal. Whether that ultimately changes overall happiness is not entirely clear. It may not.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#12
RE: If it wasn't for religion
Some people simply get comfort from religion and I can't explain why. Sometimes even they can't explain why. 

You know them by the confusion on their faces when they hear "atheist".
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#13
RE: If it wasn't for religion
I tend to agree with OP. I have friends whose only way of being able to carry on is because she threw herself completely into the delusion that Christianity fed her. I think she needed it to survive and if I had been through the same I am not sure I wouldn't have turn to it as well.
[Image: dc52deee8e6b07186c04ff66a45fd204.jpg]
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#14
RE: If it wasn't for religion
What are you saying, precisely? That people who are on hard times would kill themselves if it wasn't for religion? If not suicide, because I don't want to jump the gun here, what exactly do you mean that a lot of people would just "quit life?"

You seem to have a pretty low opinion of people. I think people find all kinds of things to hang on to that keep them going, religious or not. We, as humans, are amazing at creating alternate realities to escape to that help us deal with and heal from the harsh realities of real life. I think even without religion, people find something to cling on to that keeps them going.

I also think that humans are pretty amazing, flawed as we are. We have a long ways to go and a lot we can improve, but I think most people get by and seem to be mostly content with life.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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#15
RE: If it wasn't for religion
(January 20, 2019 at 4:37 pm)Aegon Wrote: I have a good friend who acknowledges that, logically, God's existence seems unlikely. But on an emotional level, she makes a conscious choice to believe ...

Yeah?  How does that work?

Because I can't consciously force myself to believe something that I don't believe.
Either I believe it, or I don't.

I could choose to act as if  I believed, for any of a variety of good or bad reasons.
Not quite the same thing.
-- 
Dr H


"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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#16
RE: If it wasn't for religion
(January 22, 2019 at 6:02 pm)Dr H Wrote:
(January 20, 2019 at 4:37 pm)Aegon Wrote: I have a good friend who acknowledges that, logically, God's existence seems unlikely. But on an emotional level, she makes a conscious choice to believe ...

Yeah?  How does that work?

Because I can't consciously force myself to believe something that I don't believe.
Either I believe it, or I don't.

I could choose to act as if  I believed, for any of a variety of good or bad reasons.
Not quite the same thing.

I think what Aegon's friend meant is that if one were to go by logic and reasoning alone, then one would have to conclude that God's existence is unlikely. Nevertheless, his friend intuits that God exists and therefore continues to believe.

I see nothing confusing about that. And in fact, I find this to be rather honest, compared to all the theists who say there is evidence for God and/or that faith is somehow logical. Wish more and more theists were like the former instead of the latter.
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#17
RE: If it wasn't for religion
Well if it wasn't for Christianity no one with European ancestory would be here today.
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#18
RE: If it wasn't for religion
[Image: Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg]
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#19
RE: If it wasn't for religion
(January 24, 2019 at 1:59 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: [Image: Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg]

Haha Jackie Chan. Nice one...
Why is he so triggered anyway?
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#20
RE: If it wasn't for religion
(January 20, 2019 at 1:50 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: I see quite a lot more people quitting life after seeing the misery of it if it wasn't for religion . Being born in post collapse ex soviet state(Imagine the collapse of UK or US), I think a lot of poor people getting disappointed in life would just quit it if it wasn't for invisible happy land and painful land waiting for them.

Without religion you wouldn't haven't Dostoevky, or Tolstoy, or Comac Mccarthy, or Flannery O'Connor, or Marilyn Robinson, who have offered us greater insights into ourselves, then others. In fact you wouldn't have an MLK, or a Gandhi.

Without religions, our reflection about ourselves would be less authentic or more superficial, even atheists rely on their opposition to religion to see themselves.
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