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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 5:30 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2019 at 5:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
That seems unlikely.
People use their religious imagery and beliefs as a backdrop to their personal convictions..but the varying religious backdrops of each of those people and the fact that those with no religious backdrop make similar contributions and create similar personal convictions suggests that any of them could have formed their thoughts with the religion of any of the others or no religion at all.
To take a more nebulous route......as long as there were people who thought about civil rights like mlk did..and there were, we were always going to end up getting an mlk at some point. Repeat again with any other figure or movement.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 6:36 pm
(January 25, 2019 at 5:30 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: That seems unlikely.
People use their religious imagery and beliefs as a backdrop to their personal convictions..but the varying religious backdrops of each of those people and the fact that those with no religious backdrop make similar contributions and create similar personal convictions suggests that any of them could have formed their thoughts with the religion of any of the others or no religion at all.
To take a more nebulous route......as long as there were people who thought about civil rights like mlk did..and there were, we were always going to end up getting an mlk at some point. Repeat again with any other figure or movement.
Nah, you need a sort of convinction in something far greater than you, to something eternal and profound, or else how could we make mountains move?
No atheist can move men like me, the way a man like MLK could in a sermon. An atheists trying his hand at pulpit would make me cringe. While a theist like MLK moves both theists and atheists .
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 8:18 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2019 at 8:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 25, 2019 at 6:36 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (January 25, 2019 at 5:30 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: That seems unlikely.
People use their religious imagery and beliefs as a backdrop to their personal convictions..but the varying religious backdrops of each of those people and the fact that those with no religious backdrop make similar contributions and create similar personal convictions suggests that any of them could have formed their thoughts with the religion of any of the others or no religion at all.
To take a more nebulous route......as long as there were people who thought about civil rights like mlk did..and there were, we were always going to end up getting an mlk at some point. Repeat again with any other figure or movement.
Nah, you need a sort of convinction in something far greater than you, to something eternal and profound, or else how could we make mountains move? Maybe, but religious beliefs don't have a lock on that market either.
Quote:No atheist can move men like me, the way a man like MLK could in a sermon. An atheists trying his hand at pulpit would make me cringe. While a theist like MLK moves both theists and atheists .
....................  If you say so, but I don't find you particularly moving, nor do I find mlks god references all that moving, either.
I think it would be easier to make the case that you don't get a Martin Luther without religion, rather than an MLK.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 8:57 pm
Religion is a topic in which it can sway either way. It can be both good and bad, if you're religion basically is the only reason you're living and without it he'd just kill yourself, you might need some help. I get a religion is a persons make up, but I like reading tarot cards and practicing rituals, but I could do on with life without doing my daily readings. If you can'd function without a prayer circle from your group, then you've got a problem.
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 9:22 pm
(January 25, 2019 at 6:36 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (January 25, 2019 at 5:30 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: That seems unlikely.
People use their religious imagery and beliefs as a backdrop to their personal convictions..but the varying religious backdrops of each of those people and the fact that those with no religious backdrop make similar contributions and create similar personal convictions suggests that any of them could have formed their thoughts with the religion of any of the others or no religion at all.
To take a more nebulous route......as long as there were people who thought about civil rights like mlk did..and there were, we were always going to end up getting an mlk at some point. Repeat again with any other figure or movement.
Nah, you need a sort of convinction in something far greater than you, to something eternal and profound, or else how could we make mountains move?
No atheist can move men like me, the way a man like MLK could in a sermon. An atheists trying his hand at pulpit would make me cringe. While a theist like MLK moves both theists and atheists .
Perhaps you have a prejudice against atheists then.
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 9:52 pm
(January 25, 2019 at 9:22 pm)Grandizer Wrote: (January 25, 2019 at 6:36 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Nah, you need a sort of convinction in something far greater than you, to something eternal and profound, or else how could we make mountains move?
No atheist can move men like me, the way a man like MLK could in a sermon. An atheists trying his hand at pulpit would make me cringe. While a theist like MLK moves both theists and atheists .
Perhaps you have a prejudice against atheists then.
No, just their moralizing. If the backbone of your moral pronunciation isn’t at an appeal to some eternal truth, then just stay home with it. Watching you moralize, would be as cringey as that Gillette commercial, as watching Sam Harris give a Ted Talk on the Moral Landscape.
An atheists will always be moved by a strong moral sermon of the religious, while they lack the strength to do so themselves, it’s more sickly pleas, than prophetic calls to repentance.
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 25, 2019 at 10:02 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2019 at 10:05 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sounds like a resounding yes, lol.
Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you dont hear atheists making "prophetic calls to repentance" is that they don't believe in that story..and are actually calling for you to do something else? Like, to stop being an asshole..for example?
Besides, it's a crowded market, there are nutballs with milk crates making prophetic calls to repentence to people strolling by all day every day..you know.."moving them", lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 26, 2019 at 9:00 am
(January 25, 2019 at 9:52 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (January 25, 2019 at 9:22 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Perhaps you have a prejudice against atheists then.
No, just their moralizing. If the backbone of your moral pronunciation isn’t at an appeal to some eternal truth, then just stay home with it. Watching you moralize, would be as cringey as that Gillette commercial, as watching Sam Harris give a Ted Talk on the Moral Landscape.
An atheists will always be moved by a strong moral sermon of the religious, while they lack the strength to do so themselves, it’s more sickly pleas, than prophetic calls to repentance.
How does appealing to a god bolster anyone's moralizing exactly? Saying that killing is wrong because God ... does not make sense to me.
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 26, 2019 at 9:17 am
(January 25, 2019 at 6:36 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Nah, you need a sort of convinction in something far greater than you, to something eternal and profound, or else how could we make mountains move?
No atheist can move men like me, the way a man like MLK could in a sermon. An atheists trying his hand at pulpit would make me cringe. While a theist like MLK moves both theists and atheists .
Atheists can have conviction in something greater than themselves -- reality; this is far more inspiring and profound than anything offered by a god
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RE: If it wasn't for religion
January 26, 2019 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2019 at 11:55 am by Acrobat.)
(January 26, 2019 at 9:00 am)Grandizer Wrote: (January 25, 2019 at 9:52 pm)Acrobat Wrote: No, just their moralizing. If the backbone of your moral pronunciation isn’t at an appeal to some eternal truth, then just stay home with it. Watching you moralize, would be as cringey as that Gillette commercial, as watching Sam Harris give a Ted Talk on the Moral Landscape.
An atheists will always be moved by a strong moral sermon of the religious, while they lack the strength to do so themselves, it’s more sickly pleas, than prophetic calls to repentance.
How does appealing to a god bolster anyone's moralizing exactly? Saying that killing is wrong because God ... does not make sense to me.
I said eternal truths, telling me that killing is wrong because it’s violate some profound and eternal law, is a bit more persuasive
than telling me killing is wrong because society thinks so.
(January 26, 2019 at 9:17 am)unfogged Wrote: Atheists can have conviction in something greater than themselves -- reality; this is far more inspiring and profound than anything offered by a god
And their version of reality lacks any moral aims and purposes, doesn’t convince a man to take the hand off of his brother neck, or laddle benediction on the heads of strangers rather than curses.
All their version of reality tells us is all is permissible.
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