[Serious] Please convince me gender is binary

[tackattack]

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There has been a lot of discussion on it lately, and there's a lot of informed and actual people that struggle with gender. Perhaps I need an education in gender identity, But I only see gender as binary. I'm open to be convinced otherwise. Let me start with a statement, which I'm sure people will jump all over.

I define gender normalcy as that which functions according to its design. Our design is in our DNA as male or female.  Gender identity uses the same words and is thus binary. Is this a true statement? Elucidate me.

PS- I don't think I did the serious tag right, I need an education on that too please

I am a transgender female; some of my earliest memories were of wearing make-up, my mom's dresses/skirts, daydreaming of getting married, carrying a baby within me, etc.  (But, of course, I am a biological male.)  And, so, what's the big deal?  What do you and yours expect of me?

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If by me and mine you mean white males in their 40's idk and dgaf, for me personally:
There isn't a big deal unless you're making it a big deal. I personally don't think societies general views and classifications supercede my own personal definitions and beliefs. If you walked into a men's room I was using, I'd nod, say hi and see if you washed your hands after (the same as I do of every other person who walks in). Now if you walk in, look around and seem shocked that you walked into a men's room, I'd assume you were a female who walked into the men's room and ask if the women's room line was too long, like I would do for any woman walking into a men's room. As for expectations, I expect you to be confident in yourself and your identity individually. Socially I expect you to conform to legal norms and classifications (ie. Using the male urinal to stand up and pee, going to the men's changing room with your dresses and skirts, etc) that you yourself accept by ackowledging that you are biologically male.

[Aegon]

Makes me laugh that all of you with all of your opinions haven't come close to hitting the nail on the head. At best a couple of you have given yourselves a sore thumb.
Do you think the Ram and the Ewe or the Bitch and the Dog are in the slightest bit arsed about this?

Wake up mammals. You are not at all special.  

No need to convince you of anything matey... You are here to make little people, that's it.

This is insanely disingenuous. Are we special in Christian terms (i.e., made for this planet, God's chosen people, different from all other living things, etc), no, we are not. Obviously as an atheist I'll readily admit that. But of course we are fucking special! The fact that we even have the concept of gender, and that the concept can change and evolve and be challenged over multiple cultures and multiple centuries -- yeah, we're a bit different than other mammals in that regard.

Also, implying that we are "here to do" anything, implies there's a mandate to follow. We're here to do literally whatever we feel like doing. At this point in human history, we've eclipsed simple reproduction. Don't know if they told you that in whatever anarcho-primitivist society you've been living in, but humans are capable of some serious shit. Beyond fucking.

[Jehanne]

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I am a transgender female; some of my earliest memories were of wearing make-up, my mom's dresses/skirts, daydreaming of getting married, carrying a baby within me, etc.  (But, of course, I am a biological male.)  And, so, what's the big deal?  What do you and yours expect of me?

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If by me and mine you mean white males in their 40's idk and dgaf, for me personally:
There isn't a big deal unless you're making it a big deal. I personally don't think societies general views and classifications supercede my own personal definitions and beliefs. If you walked into a men's room I was using, I'd nod, say hi and see if you washed your hands after (the same as I do of every other person who walks in). Now if you walk in, look around and seem shocked that you walked into a men's room, I'd assume you were a female who walked into the men's room and ask if the women's room line was too long, like I would do for any woman walking into a men's room. As for expectations, I expect you to be confident in yourself and your identity individually. Socially I expect you to conform to legal norms and classifications (ie. Using the male urinal to stand up and pee, going to the men's changing room with your dresses and skirts, etc) that you yourself accept by ackowledging that you are biologically male.

It's a nonissue; when I am in a skirt, I use a single woman's restroom; other times I use the men's group or single, although, I do not pee standing up, unless I am in a hurry.

[bennyboy]

but humans are capable of some serious shit. Beyond fucking.

Hands are for grabbing things. Hearts are for pumping blood. Reproductive organs are for reproducing. That's the natural function of those organs. Now, if you want to use your hand for fucking, and your dick for picking things up, then rock out with your cock out.

Arguing that organs don't have a natural purpose, because there's no such thing as purpose in evolution, is bullshit. Organs have evolved to have a function, and the function that sexual organs have is clearly to make new people.

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I don't care what strangers think, or, even friends or coworkers.  My family is different, and my non-surgical transition has been difficult on them, my spouse, especially, but such has brought me some inner peace, and I am unwilling to part with that.

Yeah, I'm down with that. You don't have to transition in order to feel trapped, and sometimes breaking free of those chains means other people don't have the life they want. But nobody should be expected to voluntary self-imprisonment for a lifetime in order to maintain a fairytale facade for everyone else.

[Jehanne]

Yeah, I'm down with that. You don't have to transition in order to feel trapped, and sometimes breaking free of those chains means other people don't have the life they want. But nobody should be expected to voluntary self-imprisonment for a lifetime in order to maintain a fairytale facade for everyone else.

That's what I was taught growing-up, though; my feelings were contrary to "God's Plan," and that I still had free will and still could choose to control those feelings, and, hence, my behavior. My feelings were due to the Fall, temptations by demons or even Satan, but God, being perfect, had no choice but to punish me in Eternity if I willingly disobeyed His Laws through my own willing disobedience to His Commands.

Except, of course, my many night terrors; I did not "choose" any of those.

[bennyboy]

Yeah, I'm down with that.  You don't have to transition in order to feel trapped, and sometimes breaking free of those chains means other people don't have the life they want.  But nobody should be expected to voluntary self-imprisonment for a lifetime in order to maintain a fairytale facade for everyone else.

That's what I was taught growing-up, though; my feelings were contrary to "God's Plan," and that I still had free will and still could choose to control those feelings, and, hence, my behavior.  My feelings were due to the Fall, temptations by demons or even Satan, but God, being perfect, had no choice but to punish me in Eternity if I willingly disobeyed His Laws through my own willing disobedience to His Commands.

Except, of course, my many night terrors; I did not "choose" any of those.

I wish Christians would be more Christlike.

[Jehanne]

I wish Christians would be more Christlike.

That's another thread entirely on the historical Jesus. But, I wish that more Christians were at least more Santa-like!

[tackattack]

If by me and mine you mean white males in their 40's idk and dgaf, for me personally:
There isn't a big deal unless you're making it a big deal. I personally don't think societies general views and classifications supercede my own personal definitions and beliefs. If you walked into a men's room I was using, I'd nod, say hi and see if you washed your hands after (the same as I do of every other person who walks in). Now if you walk in, look around and seem shocked that you walked into a men's room, I'd assume you were a female who walked into the men's room and ask if the women's room line was too long, like I would do for any woman walking into a men's room. As for expectations, I expect you to be confident in yourself and your identity individually. Socially I expect you to conform to legal norms and classifications (ie. Using the male urinal to stand up and pee, going to the men's changing room with your dresses and skirts, etc) that you yourself accept by ackowledging that you are biologically male.

It's a nonissue; when I am in a skirt, I use a single woman's restroom; other times I use the men's group or single, although, I do not pee standing up, unless I am in a hurry.

I don't sit down in a male urinal unless there is no other opportunity, that's disgusting . Peeing in a urinal, in a dress, does raise eyebrows (It did when I did it), but I'm just in there to pee and wash my hands (which takes all of 3 minutes) and frankly there not enough time to care about looky-loos, IMO.

[The Grand Nudger]

The existence of bathroom laws and upskirt grab checks explains why you expressing your disinterest (in a thread about your interest) isn't germane to the main point of interest.

Insisting on deference to legal norms that are being engineering to specifically disenfranchise is some next level compartmentalization, imo.

[bennyboy]

The existence of bathroom laws and upskirt grab checks explains why you expressing your disinterest (in a thread about your interest) isn't germane to the main point of interest.

Insisting on deference to legal norms that are being engineering to specifically disenfranchise is some next level compartmentalization, imo.

I'm curious.  Your little daughter goes into a female restroom.  A few moments later, a 300-lb obvious trans woman goes into that same bathroom.  Are you just standing there wondering what's new on Netflix or whatever?

See, I've met some perfectly normal trans people.  But I've also met some full-blown, Silence of the Lambs crazy bitches-- like scary shit.  Now, I don't know if Jehanne or other trans people here are part of a community of trans people-- but I'm curious. . . have they not met those psycho bitches, or is that just a misapprehension I have due to a very small sample size?  (I'd say I've met less than a dozen trans people, and really interacted with maybe half of that)

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I don't sit down in a male urinal unless there is no other opportunity, that's disgusting . Peeing in a urinal, in a dress, does raise eyebrows (It did when I did it), but I'm just in there to pee and wash my hands (which takes all of 3 minutes) and frankly there not enough time to care about looky-loos, IMO.

Wait, wut?

Are you a trans person? I don't think you've mentioned this.