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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 11:46 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2019 at 11:50 am by Deesse23.)
(January 30, 2019 at 10:48 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Isn't it identical to a blind man in a dark castle with a mere cane; who claims that they already know if the castle has a lord or not?
Exactly: all religions claim to know that there is a lord, and its THEIR version.
Atheism is only the rejection of the claim of those blind people.
Who is intellectually honest? The one who claims "There is a lord, and its my flavour of lord", not being able to even fundamentally interact with 96% of the universe, or the i.dont.know.and.do.are.you-atheist?
P.S.: Stop strwamanning a la "atheists claim there is no god". Some do, some dont. Athe ism is the rejection of a claim of a god to exist.
Its all not that complicated, is it?
(January 30, 2019 at 11:30 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I use the design around me to conclude his existence.
...says the one who created this thread, saying that noone, even you, knows about 96% of the universe.
So you have seen 4% and know......impressive (particulary concerning the fact that you consider everyone ELSE to be "blind". So i guess your *special* blindness to 96% of the universe is different from mine*). Can i have your crystal ball for a moment please?
*its the special pleading fallacy. Look it up.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 11:53 am
(January 30, 2019 at 11:34 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (January 30, 2019 at 11:30 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I use the design around me to conclude his existence.
A non-believer should do the same and admit that they are also following a mere conclusion.
And both of us should wait until God rules between us. I say he's there; you say he's not.
That is said to both believers and non-believers; btw.
I don't say "God doesn't exist," I say that I an unconvinced by arguments for his existence. You've been here for years, you should at least know the positions that most atheists take. I don't see design in nature, so I don't use that to conclude anything about a designer. You're making an assertion about the un-examinable 96% of the universe based on faulty reasoning, and expecting that to be compelling? Sorry, I think you're just as ignorant about the universe as I am, only I don't go making assertions about the unknown - since it's, y'know, unknown.
If your argument is "wait for God to come prove it," then why bother making threads at all?
According to the book I have -the Quran-, the moment of your death is the end for your trial. We had all our lifespan to follow that God.
I don't care about your choices in life, but the people who preach this message are favored by this God, and I love to amplify the truth as I see it.
I believe we will be re-created again in what is known as judgement day, and that day I would prefer to have it written in my records that I spent years calling for the belief I believe in.
And in this life; what do humans have; really? their manufactured "philosophies" led to world wars, set the world in a gas chamber called "the age of nuclear deterrence", created economical bubbles that explode, left a whole continent living in poverty..
That makes me stay here to call for this religion even more, and ask to rethink what's above the 96% of the universe.
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2019 at 11:57 am by FatAndFaithless.)
(January 30, 2019 at 11:53 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (January 30, 2019 at 11:34 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I don't say "God doesn't exist," I say that I an unconvinced by arguments for his existence. You've been here for years, you should at least know the positions that most atheists take. I don't see design in nature, so I don't use that to conclude anything about a designer. You're making an assertion about the un-examinable 96% of the universe based on faulty reasoning, and expecting that to be compelling? Sorry, I think you're just as ignorant about the universe as I am, only I don't go making assertions about the unknown - since it's, y'know, unknown.
If your argument is "wait for God to come prove it," then why bother making threads at all?
According to the book I have -the Quran-, the moment of your death is the end for your trial. We had all our lifespan to follow that God.
I don't care about your choices in life, but the people who preach this message are favored by this God, and I love to amplify the truth as I see it.
I believe we will be re-created again in what is known as judgement day, and that day I would prefer to have it written in my records that I spent years calling for the belief I believe in.
And in this life; what do humans have; really? their manufactured "philosophies" led to world wars, set the world in a gas chamber called "the age of nuclear deterrence", created economical bubbles that explode, left a whole continent living in poverty..
That makes me stay here to call for this religion even more, and ask to rethink what's above the 96% of the universe.
Well ask your god for some better arguments then. Especially considering your argument in the OP has absolutely nothing to do with Islam or Allah specifically. Any creator-god-worshiping religion could use the same tack. If you truly think we'll be judged by our following or non-following of Allah, then ask him to provide some better evidence, so that we heathens can be saved. If all Allah can offer is logically fallacious, tautological, unfalsifiable assertions and arguments, then that's sorta on him.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 11:58 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2019 at 12:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 30, 2019 at 10:48 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Until this moment; we only discovered 4% of the universe:
https://www.space.com/11642-dark-matter-...panek.html
If 96% of the universe is out of our reach, sight and comprehension, then how is it so legit for a non believer to just exclude the existence of a creator 7 times bigger than the 96% ?
Isn't it identical to a blind man in a dark castle with a mere cane; who claims that they already know if the castle has a lord or not?
I'm sorry; not a "castle"; rather a "whole galaxy".
You don't actually believe that "allah" is hiding in unexplored regions of space, do you?
As to your question, I'm not referring to any unexplored regions of space and what they do or don't contain when I tell you that your silly god doesn't exist - I'm not even referring to things that I don't know..we -just- had a thread about this.......?
There's no need or point in doing so, and I couldn't comment on that other 96% anyway (neither can you, lol).
Gods, however, are alleged to exist here, in this 4%, and to have done things here, in this 4%...the trouble is that they don't and haven't - which has nothing to do with that other 96%. The numbers don't even matter. You could posit that the universe is infinite and our portion so small as to be statistically non present.
An appeal to ignorance is just generally less-than-compelling, and even more so when that ignorance would be irrelevant.
(side note, is 7 just a number randomly chosen, or is it a magic number? How have you determind the extent of the boundaries of "allah" relative to the proposed boundary conditions of the universe? Why not 6, or 8? Is 9 right out?)
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 11:58 am
(January 30, 2019 at 11:21 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: (January 30, 2019 at 11:05 am)Brian37 Wrote: This is a bit misleading as a title. It is not saying the universe has more galaxies, than, what scientists once thought meaning we used to think the Milky Way was all there was. That is not what the article is saying. The article is saying space is mostly empty, and this is hardly new.
Not knowing what makes dark matter/empty space doesn't default to the tooth fairy, unicorns or Yoda either.
What you seem to miss, is within the last couple of decades scientists have been able to calculate the volume empty space at a better and better scale. Just like one can use math to calculate the volume an empty jar can hold if you put a solid or a liquid in it.
"We don't know everything" does not default to any old mythology being true. There is lots humans DO KNOW now, and old mythology is not the way to fill in the gaps.
Quote:"The overwhelming majority of the universe is: who knows?" explains science writer Richard Panek, who spoke about these oddities of our universe on Monday (May 9) at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York (CUNY) here in Manhattan. "It's unknown for now, and possibly forever."
That's what scientists are saying; Brian. From the article above.
In Islam; God is never to be pictured or described except with what he told humans to describe him with. So the "unicorn/yoda...etc" cannot be applied but on Heathen religions; it's unfair and utterly wrong to generalize on all religions.
Considering that humans ARE stuck in a macro world, manifesting from a micro QM world, while, if we don't blow ourselves up over stupid shit like religion, we will certainly come up with more answers in the future. But yea, it is very likely, even if our species extends our ride without dying by our own hand, I agree, it is HIGHLY likely we will go extinct not having 100% perfect knowledge.
SO WHAT?
There is still a TON scientists HAVE figured out. When the world's top scientist Stephen Hawking says, "A God is not required". I think he knows what he is talking about.
It makes much more logical sense to me, that humans are NOT important in the time scale of the universe, and we are simply a temporary blip, just like a temporary rain storm, or snow storm in a gigantic weather pattern.
Point is, again, not knowing everything DOES NOT mean we don't know anything. There is TONS of data that does rule out the extremely unlikely.
It is enough for me to know, the atoms in me are a result of the death of another star prior to ours forming. I feel no need to think my cognition was around prior to my birth, or that my cognition will survive me after my brain and body die. I am thrilled to be here now and don't need old mythology to value what I do know now, nor do I feel the need to fall for fictional utopias of an after life.
There is NOTHING wrong with accepting my finite existence . It does not mean I want to die, I do not. It does not mean I want crime and violence. It just means I accept reality without myth making.
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 11:59 am
(January 30, 2019 at 10:48 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Until this moment; we only discovered 4% of the universe:
https://www.space.com/11642-dark-matter-...panek.html
If 96% of the universe is out of our reach, sight and comprehension, then how is it so legit for a non believer to just exclude the existence of a creator 7 times bigger than the 96% ?
Isn't it identical to a blind man in a dark castle with a mere cane; who claims that they already know if the castle has a lord or not?
I'm sorry; not a "castle"; rather a "whole galaxy".
Nope.
There is no convincing evidence fir any gods. Therefore dismissing such a being makes perfect sense, whereas believing without evidence on "faith" alone is irrational.
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 12:02 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2019 at 12:03 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
Quote:If 96% of the universe is out of our reach, sight and comprehension, then how is it so legit for a non believer to just exclude the existence of a creator 7 times bigger than the 96% ?
This is a particularly poor comparison. One can provisionally exclude a creator not just by being unable to see one, but by not having been presented with good arguments that such a creator does or needs to exist.
It is worth remembering that EVERYTHING that has been explained by mundane means was, at one time or another, attributed to the action of a creator (or some similar supernatural intervention). There is no good reason to expect that this will ever change.
Boru
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 12:06 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2019 at 12:30 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(January 30, 2019 at 10:48 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Until this moment; we only discovered 4% of the universe:
https://www.space.com/11642-dark-matter-...panek.html
If 96% of the universe is out of our reach, sight and comprehension, then how is it so legit for a non believer to just exclude the existence of a creator 7 times bigger than the 96% ?
Isn't it identical to a blind man in a dark castle with a mere cane; who claims that they already know if the castle has a lord or not?
I'm sorry; not a "castle"; rather a "whole galaxy".
If 96% of the universe is out of our reach, sight and comprehension, then how is it so legit for a believer to just exclude the possibility that a celestial alligator has already killed, dismembered, eaten, digested your creator and shat out its remains?
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 12:06 pm
One moment in our plant's history really fucking pisses me off that theists constantly ignore.
If the meteor that killed off the dinosaurs had not hit, it would not have lead to mammals showing up. Problem is with theists, a future meteor will hit us again, and scientists agree that it is not a matter of "if" but when, knowing what we know about meteor strikes, not just on the earth, but the moon, and the other planets in our solar system as well.
Even if our species never existed, the facts are in, and earth is still in a solar system which is ALSO a shooting gallery of meteors and comets. And again, that is also a given eventually even if humans DONT get into a nuclear war over bullshit.
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RE: We can only see 4% of the universe !
January 30, 2019 at 12:12 pm
At work.
Uhm.... I'm not sure you've fully thought the implications of your post through, AtlassS33.
So.... 'If' said scientists/astronomers/astrophysicists are correct and there is a humongous amount of reality we will never interact with
THEN
There is a huge amount of some now completely unknowable stuff that can never interact with or know about us.
If your diety is 'Out there' in the great unknowable beyond?
It can't know anout us, either.
Y'see the problem AtlassS33?
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