Just listened to Warren's announcement.

[bennyboy]

Warren's the only Democratic frontrunner I've come close to "feeling" thus far...But I honestly don't think she stands snowball's chance in hell at defeating Trump.
I'm not convinced that anyone else in the current crop of potential Democratic candidates stands a remarkably better chance at pulling it off either.

My god, is there really NO ONE ELSE who's willing to throw their hat in the ring? Because at this point, it seems that 2020 is staging to be another fucking disaster for the Dems.

I hope I'm wrong.

I feel the problem may be connected to charisma, and the tendency of charismatic people to say things that are unpolitic.  Trump doesn't have that problem-- he knows the Republican mating call, and he can moo moo moo till the cattle come home.  But you put up say Biden, and he'll say something dumb about women or something, and he'll lose 1/2 the Democratic base.  It's not that they'll vote for Trump, it's that they won't show up because they're too busy stamping their feet.

Never before Obama did anyone ever say so many right things so intelligently, and with so much charisma.  I mean, when he got elected, he could literally have asked Americans to fall on the sword for him, and millions would have. And now. . . nothing but zombies and lizards-- not a charismatic bone among them. To be honest, I think the only solution is to import charisma-- grab one of your smarter media liberals-- Colbert for example, or John Stewart, and fight fire with charismatic fire.


Watching Trump try to debate one of those guys-- the very idea of it makes me hard.

[Yonadav]

Warren's the only Democratic frontrunner I've come close to "feeling" thus far...But I honestly don't think she stands snowball's chance in hell at defeating Trump.
I'm not convinced that anyone else in the current crop of potential Democratic candidates stands a remarkably better chance at pulling it off either.

My god, is there really NO ONE ELSE who's willing to throw their hat in the ring? Because at this point, it seems that 2020 is staging to be another fucking disaster for the Dems.

I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not sure why you think chances are so bad. It came down to Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan in 2016. Trump barely took them. They are states that have gone blue more often than red in the last few presidential elections. If the nominee were Sherrod Brown, those states would be a lock. They would probably be a lock with Amy Klobuchar. With other candidates it would be less certain of a lock, but I don't think that Trump has held enough of his base to hold those states. Oh, and the long shot Richard Ojeda would probably also be a lock in those states.

[Athene]

Warren's the only Democratic frontrunner I've come close to "feeling" thus far...But I honestly don't think she stands snowball's chance in hell at defeating Trump.
I'm not convinced that anyone else in the current crop of potential Democratic candidates stands a remarkably better chance at pulling it off either.

My god, is there really NO ONE ELSE who's willing to throw their hat in the ring? Because at this point, it seems that 2020 is staging to be another fucking disaster for the Dems.

I hope I'm wrong.

I feel the problem may be connected to charisma, and the tendency of charismatic people to say things that are unpolitic.  Trump doesn't have that problem-- he knows the Republican mating call, and he can moo moo moo till the cattle come home.  But you put up say Biden, and he'll say something dumb about women or something, and he'll lose 1/2 the Democratic base.  It's not that they'll vote for Trump, it's that they won't show up because they're too busy stamping their feet.

Never before Obama did anyone ever say so many right things so intelligently, and with so much charisma.  I mean, when he got elected, he could literally have asked Americans to fall on the sword for him, and millions would have.  And now. . . nothing but zombies and lizards-- not a charismatic bone among them.

*Sigh.*...Must you make everything about "stinkin' SJWs and their damn identity politics"?
Oh, who am I kidding? Of course, you must. 

Biden's best chance at winning was in 2016 when he still had momentum. That has since been lost and Joe will pushing 78 years of age come election time. 
That's the real thorn in his side.

[bennyboy]

I feel the problem may be connected to charisma, and the tendency of charismatic people to say things that are unpolitic.  Trump doesn't have that problem-- he knows the Republican mating call, and he can moo moo moo till the cattle come home.  But you put up say Biden, and he'll say something dumb about women or something, and he'll lose 1/2 the Democratic base.  It's not that they'll vote for Trump, it's that they won't show up because they're too busy stamping their feet.

Never before Obama did anyone ever say so many right things so intelligently, and with so much charisma.  I mean, when he got elected, he could literally have asked Americans to fall on the sword for him, and millions would have.  And now. . . nothing but zombies and lizards-- not a charismatic bone among them.

*Sigh.*...Must you make everything about "stinkin' SJWs and their damn identity politics"?
Oh, who am I kidding? Of course, you must. 

Biden's best chance at winning was in 2016 when he still had momentum. That has since been lost and Joe will pushing 78 years of age come election time. 
That's the real thorn in his side.

Not talking about SJWs, I'm talking about the democratic base.  They need a squeaky-clean, charming, intelligent candidate, or they won't get enough turnout to carry the election.

The Republicans just need a guy who seems to want to make life hard for the democrats, and they'll get the votes they need.

[Athene]

Warren's the only Democratic frontrunner I've come close to "feeling" thus far...But I honestly don't think she stands snowball's chance in hell at defeating Trump.
I'm not convinced that anyone else in the current crop of potential Democratic candidates stands a remarkably better chance at pulling it off either.

My god, is there really NO ONE ELSE who's willing to throw their hat in the ring? Because at this point, it seems that 2020 is staging to be another fucking disaster for the Dems.

I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not sure why you think chances are so bad. It came down to Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan in 2016. Trump barely took them. They are states that have gone blue more often than red in the last few presidential elections. If the nominee were Sherrod Brown, those states would be a lock. They would probably be a lock with Amy Klobuchar. With other candidates it would be less certain of a lock, but I don't think that Trump has held enough of his base to hold those states. Oh, and the long shot Richard Ojeda would probably also be a lock in those states.

Dems would have to sweep the Rust Belt while facing the formidable power of incumbency.
That's a fairly monumental task in and of itself. 

Brown's geography could help, but if the Dems candidate who can't manage to successfully connect with ALL segments of of the Democratic base, then they're done. I don't know if Brown's up to that or not. 

Has Brown even announced that he's running? If he's going to get in the game he'd better get cracking and announce his intent soon. Even among Democrats, most people don't seem to know who this guy actually is and just recognize him as that one senator guy who calls Trump racist.

---

*Sigh.*...Must you make everything about "stinkin' SJWs and their damn identity politics"?
Oh, who am I kidding? Of course, you must. 

Biden's best chance at winning was in 2016 when he still had momentum. That has since been lost and Joe will pushing 78 years of age come election time. 
That's the real thorn in his side.

Not talking about SJWs, I'm talking about the democratic base.  They need a squeaky-clean, charming, intelligent candidate, or they won't get enough turnout to carry the election.
 

Only intellectual infants require squeaky-clean candidates. Rational people understand that such candidates do not actually exist. The Democratic Party simply attracts a much broader scope of demographics. Their challenge lies in successfully addressing various demographics' unique concerns and finding away to tie them in to the "greater good'.

The Republicans just need a guy who seems to want to make life hard for the democrats, and they'll get the votes they need.

More or less. 
I'll give you that, since it's as close as I've seen you come to making a sensible assessment all day.

[bennyboy]

Only intellectual infants require squeaky-clean candidates. Rational people understand that such candidates do not actually exist. The Democratic Party simply attracts a much broader scope of demographics. Their challenge lies in successfully addressing various demographics' unique concerns and finding away to tie them in to the "greater good'.

With all due respect, I don't think that the base for either party is predominantly rational; America, on the whole, is fucking stark raving mad so far as I can tell. However, I think the particular flavor of irrationality of the left is to exclude allies who don't meet their particular moral standards or views-- while it seems to me the irrationality of the right is in their ability to turn a blind eye to very obvious flaws, lies, or idiocy, and cast that vote anyway. That gives Trump a very easy task in running again, and a Democratic candidate a nearly impossible one. Obama was the second coming of Christ-- and it's going to take another personality like his to take the white house.

Warren would be infinitely better a president than Trump-- she's more qualified, more able to negotiate, and almost certainly better with money. However, all it takes is a few percent of the democratic vote to get turned off by her native American claims (cultural appropriation! racism!), or by whatever little bit of dirt the Republicans will dig up, and the PC crowd will shy away from voting for her.

I hope I'm wrong. I very much hope Trump will lose the next election. But I'll tell you what I think actually will happen. Trump will start a war next summer, and he'll do a couple photo ops with the troops who he will suddenly seem to give a shit about, and the Republicans will cream their goddamned pants and give him another four years. And Warren or whoever else they put up will point out that the war is obvious bullshit, but will not have the shouting power to overcome the PR trickery, and will lose.

Here's what the democrats don't get. Ideas never win American elections. It's chimpanzee instincts that guide the vote. And Trump is the kind of chimps.

[The Grand Nudger]

However, I think the particular flavor of irrationality of the left is to exclude allies who don't meet their particular moral standards or views--

Wait......wait...that's the rights entire brand...they would very much like to exclude any dissenter from the united states itself..physically...even as they bitch about exactly that being the problem of the left...

while it seems to me the irrationality of the right is in their ability to turn a blind eye to very obvious flaws, lies, or idiocy, and cast that vote anyway. 

....yeah.....they're completely cynical , but adept at concern trolling over hypocrisy, you know, from the left...in a way that apparently convinces some people? Between the two, it's difficult to tell whether the pathological incompetence of the left or the balls out cynicism of the right is the more disturbing thing. We've got one faction that doesn't have a clue either how or even if it wants to be itself...and the other that just flat out knows that they can be whatever they want so long as they swear to jesus that the other guy is doing exactly what they themselves are doing.

[bennyboy]

However, I think the particular flavor of irrationality of the left is to exclude allies who don't meet their particular moral standards or views--

Wait......wait...that's the rights entire brand...they would very much like to exclude any dissenter from the united states itself..physically...even as they bitch about exactly that being the problem of the left...

while it seems to me the irrationality of the right is in their ability to turn a blind eye to very obvious flaws, lies, or idiocy, and cast that vote anyway. 

....yeah.....they're completely cynical , but adept at concern trolling over hypocrisy, you know, from the left...in a way that apparently convinces some people?  Between the two, it's difficult to tell whether the pathological incompetence of the left or the balls out cynicism of the right is the more disturbing thing.  We've got one faction that doesn't have a clue either how or even if it wants to be itself...and the other that just flat out knows that they can be whatever they want so long as they swear to jesus that the other guy is doing exactly what they themselves are doing.

I don't know if it's even a thing in the US, like it is in Canada.  But I'm kind of thinking that a strong moderate 3rd party could make real ground right about now.  Get your more business-minded democrats, and your more socially-minded republicans, and I think you might make a case that that would be the best possible party right now.

You know, I've never been against leftism, or even PC (gasp!).  It's the noisy fringes that just pollute the airspace too much, and make it impossible to move forward.  They are pretty much the equivalent of the kid that falls down and smashes his hands and feet on the floor in a big temper tantrum all the time.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know if it's even a thing in the US, like it is in Canada.  But I'm kind of thinking that a strong moderate 3rd party could make real ground right about now.  Get your more business-minded democrats, and your more socially-minded republicans, and I think you might make a case that that would be the best possible party right now.

That'd be the Clintons.  Unfortunately, we haven't had "socially minded republicans" since the 70's.  Jesus drove them out of business.

Ironic, huh?

You know, I've never been against leftism, or even PC (gasp!).  It's the noisy fringes that just pollute the airspace too much, and make it impossible to move forward.  They are pretty much the equivalent of the kid that falls down and smashes his hands and feet on the floor in a big temper tantrum all the time.

As people often note, we don't actually have a "left" as understood in the rest of the world. That's why you hear so much about people "holding their noses" and voting. Our shit is such shit that alot of people will take whatever shit they can get.

[bennyboy]

That'd be the Clintons.  Unfortunately, we haven't had "socially minded republicans" since the 70's.  Jesus drove them out of business.

I'm mostly okay with the Clinton brand of democrat. They pretend a little to care about people, and they don't go full tilt bat-shit crazy like Trump. The problem was that nobody wanted to vote for a super-fake lizard monster.

Hillary was literally the only among either party that actually makes my hair stand up a little. That fucking creepy smile-- full teeth, no light in the eyes-- is the stuff of Halloween movies. But I already knew she was soulless when she didn't cut Bill's dick off on live TV.

I was pretty pumped about Bernie four years ago, but I just don't think he's got the shelf life to press on anymore. Ageism maybe, but death is a reality.