The origins of Mesopotamian monotheism.

[The Grand Nudger]

AGAIN (dumb ass) early Hebrews where not known as Hebrews.. the where Egyptians citizens. They did not become a nation till 40 years after the exodus.
So I ask again looking at history without your jew colored glasses on, what prevents the egyptians who would eventually become the jewish people who live and are counted as the majority from bring their God to egypt and having it be the source of monotheism?

Exodus never happened.  They were canaanites, not egyptians.  

that's bull shite.. there where three major dynasties/kingdoms of egypt. The ld kingdom the middle kingdom and the new kingdom, after each kingdom there was a mass exodus where egyptian soceities and cities where abandoned for centuries. where nomads and bandits ruled the lands, until they where united again under the next kingdom. The second kingdom saw a mass migration of the semetic people of the northern delta. This migration is consistent with scripture. It's a long movie but it give a ton of real info sourcing digs that where happening at the time of the movie and continue on today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-x55kIgheA

That movie was a way to reach into silly christians wallets, not credible historical research. For a guy who endlessly rails about pop culture you sure do love movies about pop revisionism.

[Fake Messiah]

AGAIN (dumb ass) early Hebrews where not known as Hebrews.. the where Egyptians citizens.

You really should sometimes look into the Bible, Dircho, because "Hebrews" was clearly meant to be the designation of an ethnic or national group. This is seen by its usage in juxtaposition to such ethnic/national designations as Egyptians: "The Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews" (Genesis 43:32); Moses "saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew" (Exodus 2:11); it was reported to Pharaoh that "the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women" (Exodus 1:19).

[Brian37]

The early Hebrews were never slaves under the Egyptians.

The fact that the OT mentions such a myth, says to me the early Hebrews, which were merely a splinter sect of the Canaanites were aware of the Egyptian mythology, and creating a underdog story to compete with, and eventually defeat the old Egyptian mythology.

AGAIN (dumb ass) early Hebrews where not known as Hebrews.. the where Egyptians citizens. They did not become a nation till 40 years after the exodus.
So I ask again looking at history without your jew colored glasses on, what prevents the egyptians who would eventually become the jewish people who live and are counted as the majority from bring their God to egypt and having it be the source of monotheism?
 

There is no evidence of a mass exodus by Jews from Egypt.

that's bull shite.. there where three major dynasties/kingdoms of egypt. The ld kingdom the middle kingdom and the new kingdom, after each kingdom there was a mass exodus where egyptian soceities and cities where abandoned for centuries. where nomads and bandits ruled the lands, until they where united again under the next kingdom. The second kingdom saw a mass migration of the semetic people of the northern delta. This migration is consistent with scripture. It's a long movie but it give a ton of real info sourcing digs that where happening at the time of the movie and continue on today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-x55kIgheA

Peppering a book of mythology after the fact with real places and real people is writing backwards in time.

There IS NO evidence of Jews ever being slaves under the Pharaohs as the bible claims. Just like the OT never uses the letters that spell Jesus. Josephus does not count as a first hand account. 

And there was never a worldwide global flood either. 

But most importantly, there is no such thing as a magic man with super natural powers. 

It is just simply another book of mythology.

[popeyespappy]

I have always liked the end of the Armana period as an origin for the Exodus myth. A lot of things fit. The timing would work. You would have had a large group of people looking for someplace else to live as the city was abandoned. The priests of Aten in particular wouldn't have been very welcome as the priests of the other gods returned to power. Even the usage of the term slaves fits. Everyone who wasn't Pharaoh was referred to as Pharaoh's slaves during this time period.

But just because I like it doesn't make it true. The concept of one true god could have its origins in this period, but the evidence says the Jews wouldn't adopt a truly monotheistic religion for nearly 1000 years after the death of Akhenaten. That's a long time for that particular thought to have taken hold.

[fredd bear]

AGAIN (dumb ass) early Hebrews where not known as Hebrews.. the where Egyptians citizens. They did not become a nation till 40 years after the exodus.
So I ask again looking at history without your jew colored glasses on, what prevents the egyptians who would eventually become the jewish people who live and are counted as the majority from bring their God to egypt and having it be the source of monotheism?
 

that's bull shite.. there where three major dynasties/kingdoms of egypt. The ld kingdom the middle kingdom and the new kingdom, after each kingdom there was a mass exodus where egyptian soceities and cities where abandoned for centuries. where nomads and bandits ruled the lands, until they where united again under the next kingdom. The second kingdom saw a mass migration of the semetic people of the northern delta. This migration is consistent with scripture. It's a long movie but it give a ton of real info sourcing digs that where happening at the time of the movie and continue on today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-x55kIgheA

Peppering a book of mythology after the fact with real places and real people is writing backwards in time.

There IS NO evidence of Jews ever being slaves under the Pharaohs as the bible claims. Just like the OT never uses the letters that spell Jesus. Josephus does not count as a first hand account. 

And there was never a worldwide global flood either. 

But most importantly, there is no such thing as a magic man with super natural powers. 

It is just simply another book of mythology.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 As it turns out, there is recent archaeological evidence which seems to show that there were no enslaved Hebrews/Canaanites,(at least in any numbers) no Exodus, and by extension, no Moses.

There is also strong evidence to  show the Hebrews remained polytheists  for centuries after the alleged Exodus.. This evidence is in the form of hundreds of statues of a goddess  in Israel dating  to 300 bce. Monotheism may have been the official state religion, but if so, it was ignored by the ordinary people.

The book is called 'The Bible Unearthed' and I recommend it to anyone with the capacity for abstract thought and an IQ above ambient room temperature, who has has a reasonably open mind. I think the contents of the book are compelling.

A brief explanation below. The full Wiki article is worth reading. The full book, more so. I have a copy in Ebook form, I forget how much. That I bought it indicates that it must have been cheap, because I'm a tight arse. . 


The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Siberman

Methodology
The methodology applied by the authors is historical criticism with an emphasis on archaeology. Writing in the website of "The Bible and Interpretation", the authors describe their approach as one "in which the Bible is one of the most important artifacts and cultural achievements [but] not the unquestioned narrative framework into which every archaeological find must be fit." Their main contention is that:[1]
“
...an archaeological analysis of the patriarchal, conquest, judges, and United Monarchy narratives [shows] that while there is no compelling archaeological evidence for any of them, there is clear archaeological evidence that places the stories themselves in a late 7th-century BCE context.
”
On the basis of this evidence they propose
“
... an archaeological reconstruction of the distinct histories of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, highlighting the largely neglected history of the Omride Dynasty and attempting to show how the influence of Assyrian imperialism in the region set in motion a chain of events that would eventually make the poorer, more remote, and more religiously conservative kingdom of Judah the belated center of the cultic and national hopes of all Israel.
”
As noted by a reviewer on Salon.com[2] the approach and conclusions of The Bible Unearthed are not particularly new. Ze'ev Herzog, professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, wrote a cover story for Haaretz in 1999 in which he reached similar conclusions following the same methodology; Herzog noted also that some of these findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades, even though they have only recently begun to make a dent in the awareness of the general public.[2]

((((((((((((((((((((0))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Ancestors and anachronisms


Egypt in the 15th century BC, the time of the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan as described in the Book of Joshua according to the Biblical chronology. As the map indicates, Canaan was occupied by Egypt at that time, a fact which the Bible fails to register.
The Bible Unearthed begins by considering what it terms the 'preamble' of the Bible—the Book of Genesis—and its relationship to archaeological evidence for the context in which its narratives are set. Archaeological discoveries about society and culture in the ancient Near East lead the authors to point out a number of anachronisms, suggestive that the narratives were actually set down in the 9th–7th centuries:[6]

• Aramaeans are frequently mentioned, but no ancient text mentions them until around 1100 BCE, and they only begin to dominate Israel's northern borders after the 9th century BCE.[7]
  
• The text describes the early origin of the neighbouring kingdom of Edom, but Assyrian records show that Edom only came into existence after the conquest of the region by Assyria; before then it was without functioning kings, was not a distinct state, and archaeological evidence shows that the territory was only sparsely populated.[8]
  
• The Joseph story refers to camel-based traders carrying gum, balm, and myrrh, which is unlikely prior to the first millennium, such activity only becoming common in the 8th–7th centuries BCE, when Assyrian hegemony enabled this Arabian trade to flourish into a major industry.[9] Recent excavations in the Timna Valley discovered what may be the earliest bones of domesticated camels found in Israel or even outside the Arabian peninsula, dating to around 930 BCE. This is seen as evidence that the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Jacob and Esau were written after this time.[10][11]
  
• The land of Goshen has a name that comes from an Arabic group who dominated the Nile Delta only in the 6th and 5th centuries.[12]
  
• The Egyptian Pharaoh is portrayed as fearing invasion from the east, even though Egypt's territory stretched to the northern parts of Canaan, with its main threat consequently being from the north, until the 7th century[13]
  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

[Brian37]

Peppering a book of mythology after the fact with real places and real people is writing backwards in time.

There IS NO evidence of Jews ever being slaves under the Pharaohs as the bible claims. Just like the OT never uses the letters that spell Jesus. Josephus does not count as a first hand account. 

And there was never a worldwide global flood either. 

But most importantly, there is no such thing as a magic man with super natural powers. 

It is just simply another book of mythology.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 As it turns out, there is recent archaeological evidence which seems to show that there were no enslaved Hebrews/Canaanites,(at least in any numbers) no Exodus, and by extension, no Moses.

There is also strong evidence to  show the Hebrews remained polytheists  for centuries after the alleged Exodus.. This evidence is in the form of hundreds of statues of a goddess  in Israel dating  to 300 bce. Monotheism may have been the official state religion, but if so, it was ignored by the ordinary people.

The book is called 'The Bible Unearthed' and I recommend it to anyone with the capacity for abstract thought and an IQ above ambient room temperature, who has has a reasonably open mind. I think the contents of the book are compelling.

A brief explanation below. The full Wiki article is worth reading. The full book, more so. I have a copy in Ebook form, I forget how much. That I bought it indicates that it must have been cheap, because I'm a tight arse. . 


The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Siberman

Methodology
The methodology applied by the authors is historical criticism with an emphasis on archaeology. Writing in the website of "The Bible and Interpretation", the authors describe their approach as one "in which the Bible is one of the most important artifacts and cultural achievements [but] not the unquestioned narrative framework into which every archaeological find must be fit." Their main contention is that:[1]
“
...an archaeological analysis of the patriarchal, conquest, judges, and United Monarchy narratives [shows] that while there is no compelling archaeological evidence for any of them, there is clear archaeological evidence that places the stories themselves in a late 7th-century BCE context.
”
On the basis of this evidence they propose
“
... an archaeological reconstruction of the distinct histories of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, highlighting the largely neglected history of the Omride Dynasty and attempting to show how the influence of Assyrian imperialism in the region set in motion a chain of events that would eventually make the poorer, more remote, and more religiously conservative kingdom of Judah the belated center of the cultic and national hopes of all Israel.
”
As noted by a reviewer on Salon.com[2] the approach and conclusions of The Bible Unearthed are not particularly new. Ze'ev Herzog, professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, wrote a cover story for Haaretz in 1999 in which he reached similar conclusions following the same methodology; Herzog noted also that some of these findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades, even though they have only recently begun to make a dent in the awareness of the general public.[2]

((((((((((((((((((((0))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Ancestors and anachronisms


Egypt in the 15th century BC, the time of the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan as described in the Book of Joshua according to the Biblical chronology. As the map indicates, Canaan was occupied by Egypt at that time, a fact which the Bible fails to register.
The Bible Unearthed begins by considering what it terms the 'preamble' of the Bible—the Book of Genesis—and its relationship to archaeological evidence for the context in which its narratives are set. Archaeological discoveries about society and culture in the ancient Near East lead the authors to point out a number of anachronisms, suggestive that the narratives were actually set down in the 9th–7th centuries:[6]

• Aramaeans are frequently mentioned, but no ancient text mentions them until around 1100 BCE, and they only begin to dominate Israel's northern borders after the 9th century BCE.[7]
  
• The text describes the early origin of the neighbouring kingdom of Edom, but Assyrian records show that Edom only came into existence after the conquest of the region by Assyria; before then it was without functioning kings, was not a distinct state, and archaeological evidence shows that the territory was only sparsely populated.[8]
  
• The Joseph story refers to camel-based traders carrying gum, balm, and myrrh, which is unlikely prior to the first millennium, such activity only becoming common in the 8th–7th centuries BCE, when Assyrian hegemony enabled this Arabian trade to flourish into a major industry.[9] Recent excavations in the Timna Valley discovered what may be the earliest bones of domesticated camels found in Israel or even outside the Arabian peninsula, dating to around 930 BCE. This is seen as evidence that the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Jacob and Esau were written after this time.[10][11]
  
• The land of Goshen has a name that comes from an Arabic group who dominated the Nile Delta only in the 6th and 5th centuries.[12]
  
• The Egyptian Pharaoh is portrayed as fearing invasion from the east, even though Egypt's territory stretched to the northern parts of Canaan, with its main threat consequently being from the north, until the 7th century[13]
  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

If one is going to call the Hebrews polytheists prior to becoming monotheists that proves my point.

You can even take Buddhism as an example too. Funny how Hinduism is far older, but when one looks at the earliest mythologies of Buddha, depending on sect or "historian" you see lots of superstitious overlap and close geography between Asia and India.

Just looking at the close geography of where modern Israel is to Egypt, and knowing that the polytheists existed in the same region prior to Hebrews becoming monotheists, it becomes clear that newer religions merely are spin offs of prior and surrounding competing religions.

Hebrews were polytheists, absolutely, so that undermines all three monotheism of Abraham. 

Just like knowing both Hindus and Buddhists have some overlap in superstitions. The Buddha character comes across to me as being a lot like Jefferson writing his own bible stripping it of the magic trying to turn Christianity into a philosophy. Just like the Jesus character, I think Buddha was a name slapped on a hero character as a way to draw others away from the old ways. But the oldest mythologies of Buddha have him being born from a Royal line in Queen Maya, and also being told by the divine world that the Queen would give birth to a child who would bring the gift of wisdom to the world. Buddha's birth also avoided the birth canal in that mythology.

And another example of a spin off would be the Rasta religion. It really is a spin off of a mix of African Jewish/Catholic mythology.

Point is, there is nothing new under the sun. Newer religions always get started by someone, or a group of people in competition of older or surrounding religions.

[Drich]

AGAIN (dumb ass) early Hebrews where not known as Hebrews.. the where Egyptians citizens.

You really should sometimes look into the Bible, Dircho, because "Hebrews" was clearly meant to be the designation of an ethnic or national group. This is seen by its usage in juxtaposition to such ethnic/national designations as Egyptians: "The Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews" (Genesis 43:32); Moses "saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew" (Exodus 2:11); it was reported to Pharaoh that "the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women" (Exodus 1:19).

So when you see a native black person in the streets of a major city in america do you say there goes an american or an african american? When you see a native born chinese person wandering the streets of an american city how do you identify them? So even if you where to say american first... 4000 years ago they where not concerned with being PC. To the Jews like today or even before WWII while living as german citizens they saw themselves as jews first. then germans. During WWI germany saw their jews as germans first and they where made to fight right along side german born citizens! When we fought the jews in WWI we didn't fight german jews and regular germans we fought germany, yet to the jews in germany they where jews first.. this line was made more real upon their exodus to the camps in WWII just like in egypt when they left.. (kinda in reverse as they left egypt in pride but left germany beaten and broken.)

During WWI german jew and german fought side by side and where awarded the same medals Just like when times where good in egypt. when God's people where making egypt a super power they where welcome as brothers.. but much time had past and the pharaoh of the exodus did not know of joseph and or what egypt owed him. So they were dehumanized like in WWII germany and segregated becoming 'hebrew' again.

[The Grand Nudger]

None of that happened. Magic book is not an account of history.

[Drich]

and as far as jews being slaves IF you read exodus 1 the jews becoming slaves did not happen till their very end of their time in egypt. so that beggs the question what where they doing for the centuries prior? They where citizens! Citizens of another race yes, but only if there where at least one other example in the history of the world where one country had more than one race of citizens to show as an example of how they officially could be identified as members of a nation but still retain their identity as sons of abraham!

[The Grand Nudger]

No statement that begins with "if you read exodus" is going to amount to a cogent comment on reality.

LOL, "well, if you read the book, you'd know that in the kelvin timeline...."