Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 13, 2024, 7:57 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Part of Notre Dame on fire.
#41
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
Nööööö
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Reply
#42
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.


Reply
#43
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
It wasn't a fire, it's just that the lid came off hell!
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

Reply
#44
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
Questions for anyone who can answer. 

One of the saved "artifacts" is the alleged thorn crown the church claims was worn by the Jesus character. Any history on when the church "acquired" it? And from the very short clips in the news, is it gold gilded? It looks like it was to me.
Reply
#45
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
(April 17, 2019 at 11:26 am)Brian37 Wrote: Questions for anyone who can answer. 

One of the saved "artifacts" is the alleged thorn crown the church claims was worn by the Jesus character. Any history on when the church "acquired" it? And from the very short clips in the news, is it gold gilded? It looks like it was to me.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_thorns

Quote:In 1238, Baldwin II, the Latin Emperor of Constantinople, anxious to obtain support for his tottering empire, offered the crown of thorns to Louis IX, King of France. It was then in the hands of the Venetians as security for a heavy loan (13,134 gold pieces), but it was redeemed and conveyed to Paris where Louis IX built the Sainte-Chapelle (completed 1248) to receive it. The relic stayed there until the French Revolution, when, after finding a home for a while in the Bibliothèque Nationale, the Concordat of 1801 restored it to the Church, and it was deposited in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame.[4]

The relic that the Church received is a twisted circlet of Juncus balticus rushes; the thorns preserved in various other reliquaries are of Ziziphus spina-christi and had apparently been removed from the crown and kept in separate reliquaries since soon after they arrived in France.[5] New reliquaries were provided for the relic, one commissioned by Napoleon, another, in jewelled rock crystal and more suitably Gothic, was made to the designs of Eugene Viollet-le-Duc. In 2001, when the surviving treasures from the Sainte-Chapelle were exhibited at the Louvre, the chaplet was solemnly presented every Friday at Notre-Dame. Pope John Paul II translated it personally to the Sainte-Chapelle during World Youth Day. The relic can be seen only on the first Friday of every month, when it is brought out for a special veneration mass, as well as each Friday during Lent.[6] See also Feast of the Crown of Thorns.

The relic was saved by Jean-Marc Fournier, chaplain of the Paris Fire Brigade, during the Notre-Dame de Paris fire of April 15, 2019.[7]

If you look more closely at the image in the article linked above it looks like the gold is a circlet built to house the crown itself, not that the crown itself is gold-leafed, but that's totally a guess on my part. This is as much googling as I care to do this morning.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
Reply
#46
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
(April 18, 2019 at 10:26 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote:
(April 17, 2019 at 11:26 am)Brian37 Wrote: Questions for anyone who can answer. 

One of the saved "artifacts" is the alleged thorn crown the church claims was worn by the Jesus character. Any history on when the church "acquired" it? And from the very short clips in the news, is it gold gilded? It looks like it was to me.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_thorns

Quote:In 1238, Baldwin II, the Latin Emperor of Constantinople, anxious to obtain support for his tottering empire, offered the crown of thorns to Louis IX, King of France. It was then in the hands of the Venetians as security for a heavy loan (13,134 gold pieces), but it was redeemed and conveyed to Paris where Louis IX built the Sainte-Chapelle (completed 1248) to receive it. The relic stayed there until the French Revolution, when, after finding a home for a while in the Bibliothèque Nationale, the Concordat of 1801 restored it to the Church, and it was deposited in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame.[4]

The relic that the Church received is a twisted circlet of Juncus balticus rushes; the thorns preserved in various other reliquaries are of Ziziphus spina-christi and had apparently been removed from the crown and kept in separate reliquaries since soon after they arrived in France.[5] New reliquaries were provided for the relic, one commissioned by Napoleon, another, in jewelled rock crystal and more suitably Gothic, was made to the designs of Eugene Viollet-le-Duc. In 2001, when the surviving treasures from the Sainte-Chapelle were exhibited at the Louvre, the chaplet was solemnly presented every Friday at Notre-Dame. Pope John Paul II translated it personally to the Sainte-Chapelle during World Youth Day. The relic can be seen only on the first Friday of every month, when it is brought out for a special veneration mass, as well as each Friday during Lent.[6] See also Feast of the Crown of Thorns.

The relic was saved by Jean-Marc Fournier, chaplain of the Paris Fire Brigade, during the Notre-Dame de Paris fire of April 15, 2019.[7]

If you look more closely at the image in the article linked above it looks like the gold is a circlet built to house the crown itself, not that the crown itself is gold-leafed, but that's totally a guess on my part.  This is as much googling as I care to do this morning.

So basically, if I am reading this correctly, this is yet another manufactured object well after the alleged claimed event, and hardly a first hand account.
Reply
#47
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
(April 18, 2019 at 10:32 am)Brian37 Wrote: So basically, if I am reading this correctly, this is yet another manufactured object well after the alleged claimed event, and hardly a first hand account.

Manufacturing evidence is obstruction of justice.
Reply
#48
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
(April 18, 2019 at 12:37 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:
(April 18, 2019 at 10:32 am)Brian37 Wrote: So basically, if I am reading this correctly, this is yet another manufactured object well after the alleged claimed event, and hardly a first hand account.

Manufacturing evidence is obstruction of justice.

"Now you're John Hammond."
Reply
#49
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
(April 18, 2019 at 12:37 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:
(April 18, 2019 at 10:32 am)Brian37 Wrote: So basically, if I am reading this correctly, this is yet another manufactured object well after the alleged claimed event, and hardly a first hand account.

Manufacturing evidence is obstruction of justice.

Um not sure what you mean by that. 

But I would agree and say that in all of antiquity, in every religion it was quite common to concoct stories and relics to create a false image of credibility. Even today in food marketing, if you go read the labels of certain food items like orange juice, you end up looking at the nutrition label and the "so called" item is mostly sugar and water.

Marketing is why religions survive, just like any other product.
Reply
#50
RE: Part of Notre Dame on fire.
(April 18, 2019 at 10:32 am)Brian37 Wrote:
(April 18, 2019 at 10:26 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_thorns


If you look more closely at the image in the article linked above it looks like the gold is a circlet built to house the crown itself, not that the crown itself is gold-leafed, but that's totally a guess on my part.  This is as much googling as I care to do this morning.

So basically, if I am reading this correctly, this is yet another manufactured object well after the alleged claimed event, and hardly a first hand account.

There isn't enough in the article to support the claim that the crown was manufactured 'well after the alleged claimed event', and the section quoted only details how it got to Notre Dame. If the Passion narrative in the Synoptics is accurate (meaning Jesus was crowned with a ring of thorns), then the relic could conceivably be genuine.

But I wouldn't place a bet on it.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Fire in Brijest - a predictable result of recycling stupidity? FlatAssembler 66 6347 October 28, 2023 at 5:12 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Flint Pastor Calls for Cease Fire onlinebiker 1 349 August 13, 2021 at 6:54 pm
Last Post: HappySkeptic
  Another gun discussion part deux. Drich 66 4604 October 8, 2020 at 1:13 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Fire at Pier 45 in San Francisco onlinebiker 10 1307 May 24, 2020 at 7:56 pm
Last Post: Fireball
  The worst part of the pandemic - onlinebiker 19 2141 April 4, 2020 at 7:54 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Australia on fire Fake Messiah 21 2786 January 12, 2020 at 8:01 am
Last Post: LastPoet
  Jump in the fire...... Brian37 19 1556 September 19, 2019 at 5:09 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  I love AOC part 2 bennyboy 108 9134 April 7, 2019 at 7:22 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  I don't like AOC and her fake new fans part 1 Drich 12 2125 February 20, 2019 at 6:10 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  This topic from 2016, proved true in 2018, read and do your part WinterHold 0 399 September 8, 2018 at 8:40 am
Last Post: WinterHold



Users browsing this thread: 4 Guest(s)