Moscow: Suicide Muslim Go Boom!

[muhtesem insan]

did any organizations take responsibility yet?

[Skipper]

I suspect it may have begun with the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Mostafawi Mousawi Khomeini.

Yeah, he's one of them quite possibly.

But aside from that, I don't think that simply killing myself and a crowd of other people for my religion is a way to become a martyr. Even so, there are many other ways to show that I love God without having to kill anyone. But I can't really tell what goes inside the mind of a suicide bomber or know their intentions for doing such a thing.

Do you accept that (in the majority of cases) the Muslims that have done acts like this have done so as a direct result of the book you worship?

[Anomalocaris]

The Muslims had been conducting suicide bombings against civilians at least since the Algerian war with France in 1950s. It certainly didn't begin with the Iranian Ayatollah. One should also point out in most cases, whatever the religious overtones, majority of suicide bombers serve an underlying narrow secular cause. Suicide bombing as a secular tactic may in our eyes be beyond the pail, but that's because of our norms and conventions, not because of the intrinsic incompatibility between suicide bombing and secular causes. Kamakaze pilots were not Muslims. The Japanese would have launched Kamakaze attacks against US civilian targets if only they had planes with enough range. This is in principle not different from suicide bombing. Tamil tigers are not Muslims either.

In the case of the Algerian war, the secular cause was to overthrow the French occupation. In the case of Gaza strip and inside Iserael, it is to roll back the Isrealis. In the case of Moscow, it is likely to expell Russian influence from Northern caucasus region. In all cases, where there is a gross assymmetry of military power, and the sides can not or will not separate, and the weaker side finds it utterly impossible to reconcile itself to the asserted interests of the stronger side, there will be bombings. If bombings of sufficiently juicy targets is difficult, then there will be suicide bombings.

What Islam added to the mix is not a unique tendency towards suicide attacks. Instead what Islam is doing is to make the weaker side, the Muslim side, stuck in the 12th century mind set in terms of social organization, intellectual outlook. It makes it impossible for the much of Muslim world to become reconciled to the asserted interests of modernity. As a result, Islam keeps much of Muslim world stuck in a state where they have to resort to suicide bombing.

The evil of Islam is not that it makes it easier for the individual to be a suicide bomber. The evil of Islam is it keeps entire societies on the fringe of modernity, where they feel overwhelmed by the power of modernity and yet unable to adapt to modernity. So they resort to the main way they can still hurt the sources of modernity, which is suicide bombings.

[HeyItsZeus]

I suspect it may have begun with the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Mostafawi Mousawi Khomeini.

Yeah, he's one of them quite possibly.

But aside from that, I don't think that simply killing myself and a crowd of other people for my religion is a way to become a martyr. Even so, there are many other ways to show that I love God without having to kill anyone. But I can't really tell what goes inside the mind of a suicide bomber or know their intentions for doing such a thing.

Do you accept that (in the majority of cases) the Muslims that have done acts like this have done so as a direct result of the book you worship?

Like the Bible the Koran can be interpreted in multiple ways. Some people choose to live in peace as it dictates and others want to blow shit up. They are both stupid but I would rather have one over the other.

Your half right. It's a mixture of the individual reading the Koran and the Koran's teachings. I can say "Allah wants me to love all of his creations." or I can say "Allah wants me to fight in his name." Besides... if I were brainwashed into thinking that I would be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven I would blow everything up!

[Rayaan]

Do you accept that (in the majority of cases) the Muslims that have done acts like this have done so as a direct result of the book you worship?

Yes, but that is caused by their own lack of understanding that the Quran is not telling them to kill non-believers whenever they want to. If that was true, then I wouldn't believe in the Quran either. But that is not true because intentionally killing ourselves and others with a bomb is not Jihad nor will it gain us the status of a martyr. It is only a suicide.

Now, I should tell you two of the reasons on why suicide bombing is against the Quran, which are:

1. The Quran clearly forbids us to fight, kill, nor even harm the non-combatants:
"Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, Allah does not allow you to harm them." (Surah 4:90)

2. Suicide is a major sin in Islam and the punishment for suicide is Hell:
"But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah has been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancor and injustice, soon shall We cast them into the Fire; And this is easy for Allah." - (Surah 4:29-30).

The evil of Islam is not that it makes it easier for the individual to be a suicide bomber. The evil of Islam is it keeps entire societies on the fringe of modernity, where they feel overwhelmed by the power of modernity and yet unable to adapt to modernity. So they resort to the main way they can still hurt the sources of modernity, which is suicide bombings.

Some do it for modernity and others may do it for Heaven. But you never know ...

Suicide bombing has started off as a political and a psychological strategy, and it is evil indeed, but again, it is not in agreement with the teachings of the Quran as I have already proved it. However, the western media has used this as an advantage to ridicule Islam and show everyone that this is what the Quran tells them to do, which is wrong. The media frequently shows quotations of Quranic verses and Hadiths out of context regarding the use of force in an attempt to prove that Islam justifies aggression toward the non-believers, which is not true.

Besides... if I were brainwashed into thinking that I would be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven I would blow everything up!

Actually, there is not a single verse in the Quran which says that martyrs will get 72 virgins.

It does say that they will be rewarded with virgins and many other things in Heaven (which could possibly have other metaphorical meanings), but it doesn't mention any specific number like "72" virgins. This is only found in a weak hadith with a single narrator, and that's why, Muslims are not required to believe in the "72 virgins in Heaven" thing. We believe that the Quran is the first and most authentic source for Islam, and therefore, it takes precedence over any other Islamic scriptures.

[Skipper]

Do you accept that (in the majority of cases) the Muslims that have done acts like this have done so as a direct result of the book you worship?

Yes, but that is caused by their own lack of understanding that the Quran is not telling them to kill non-believers whenever they want to. If that was true, then I wouldn't believe in the Quran either. But that is not true because intentionally killing ourselves and others with a bomb is not Jihad nor will it gain us the status of a martyr. It is only a suicide.

Now, I should tell you two of the reasons on why suicide bombing is against the Quran, which are:

1. The Quran clearly forbids us to fight, kill, nor even harm the non-combatants:
"Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, Allah does not allow you to harm them." (Surah 4:90)

But then all they have to do is get it into their heads that they are being attacked or mistreated by anyone or any country then the book you worship gives them full authority to go jihad on their ass.

This is why your book, and all religious books, are so fucking dangerous and I fail to see how you can believe a book that is so easily manipulated by whoever wants to is in fact the word of an omnipotent god. Surely there would be no room for misinterpretation of the words that came from a god unless he wanted us to fight and kill each other because he would have known different people would take different views on what ever he said, especially when you take into account contradictory and confusing versus.

[Ubermensch]

I get the feeling that Chechnya, before the year is out, will be getting its shit ruined again in a big way. This is also probably exactly what Moscow wants.

[HeyItsZeus]

Besides... if I were brainwashed into thinking that I would be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven I would blow everything up!

Actually, there is not a single verse in the Quran which says that martyrs will get 72 virgins. It does say that they will be rewarded with virgins and many other things in Heaven (which could possibly have other metaphorical meanings), but it doesn't mention any specific number like "72" virgins. This is only found in a weak hadith with a single narrator, and that's why, Muslims are not required to believe in the "72 virgins in Heaven" thing. We believe that the Quran is the first and most authentic source for Islam, and therefore, it takes precedence over any other Islamic scriptures.

I have been educated! OK. So why do these handful of Muslims break their own laws in the name of their laws? It makes no sense... are they just stupid? We see the same things happening with plenty of other groups that have been brainwashed (Nazis, Christians, Jews, any other grouped peoples, insert religion here, etc...) What is wrong with people? Are the leaders of these terrorist organizations really that cunning?

[Rayaan]

This is why your book, and all religious books, are so fucking dangerous and I fail to see how you can believe a book that is so easily manipulated by whoever wants to is in fact the word of an omnipotent god. Surely there would be no room for misinterpretation of the words that came from a god unless he wanted us to fight and kill each other because he would have known different people would take different views on what ever he said, especially when you take into account contradictory and confusing versus.

I do agree that the Quran is open to misinterpretation, but still, this doesn't mean that it was invented by someone. I don't think we should blame it on God for the misinterpretations, because he gave us brains to read and understand the Quran, and that's why, we have to read it carefully instead of thinking that God should've been more careful.

Also, Muhammad was illiterate and there is no evidence that he would be able to write a book of such poetic eloquence as the Quran. Many of the greatest poets in the past 1,400 years have tried to write a single chapter better than the Quran, but they couldn't do it. See this.

And this: Why the Quran cannot be written by Muhammad (pbuh)

So why do these handful of Muslims break their own laws in the name of their laws? It makes no sense... are they just stupid?

I don't know. Maybe stupid, maybe using Islam as a political agenda, maybe cunning, maybe non-believers disguised as Muslims, etc. But I'm not sure.

[Skipper]

Many of the greatest poets in the past 1,400 years have tried to write a single chapter better than the Quran, but they couldn't do it. See this.

Thats all very subjective though isn't it? I find songs by some of my favourite musicians more poetic than a child rapists war book, but that's just me I guess.