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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2019 at 4:00 pm by Lek.)
(August 30, 2019 at 3:37 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 3:11 pm)Lek Wrote: We all have the same God. There is only one God who reveals himself to those who sincerely seek him, no matter what religion they claim. Really? Quetzalcoatl is the same as your god?
God is who and what he is, which is something we can't fully describe with words or natural images. We perceive him through images that we can relate to. We don't know what wind looks like, but we know it exists just the same. People will describe wind differently based on how they perceive the effects of it, nonetheless we all believe it exists.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 4:00 pm
(August 30, 2019 at 3:11 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 12:34 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: So please, demonstrate that faith is a reliable path to knowledge.
I've been asking theists this one, seeming straight forward question for decades, and not one had been able to answer. Including some pretty well known apologists.
Just as a reminder, 1.8 billion Muslims, 2.2 billion Christians, 1.2 billion Hindus, 500 million Buddhists, etc, etc, all use faith to get to their religious beliefs. And we know they can't all be right, but they could all be wrong.
We all have the same God. There is only one God who reveals himself to those who sincerely seek him, no matter what religion they claim.
Oh, bloody hell! You are so biased, that probably can't even tell what is wrong with your statement.
Not to beat a dead horse, but those 1.2 billion Hindus and 1.8 billion Muslims say the same types of things about their god.
But to clarify, are you saying that if a Hindu, sincerely seeks Vishnu, Vishnu will reveal himself to them? Or are you saying, that if they sincerely seek Vishnu, your god will step in and reveal himself to the Hindu?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 4:15 pm
(August 30, 2019 at 3:58 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 3:37 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Really? Quetzalcoatl is the same as your god?
God is who and what he is, which is something we can't fully describe with words or natural images. We perceive him through images that we can relate to. We don't know what wind looks like, but we know it exists just the same. People will describe wind differently based on how they perceive the effects of it, nonetheless we all believe it exists.
The wind? Seriously you are not comparing that to your personal fantasy. .
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 4:20 pm
(August 30, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 3:11 pm)Lek Wrote: We all have the same God. There is only one God who reveals himself to those who sincerely seek him, no matter what religion they claim.
Oh, bloody hell! You are so biased, that probably can't even tell what is wrong with your statement.
Not to beat a dead horse, but those 1.2 billion Hindus and 1.8 billion Muslims say the same types of things about their god.
But to clarify, are you saying that if a Hindu, sincerely seeks Vishnu, Vishnu will reveal himself to them? Or are you saying, that if they sincerely seek Vishnu, your god will step in and reveal himself to the Hindu?
Not "My God", the "only" God. Some believe that Donald Trump is a monster and some believe he is a savior. The truth is that he is what he is no matter what our image of him is. Anyone who believes Donald Trump exists knows the truth, which is that he exists.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 4:27 pm
(August 30, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Oh, bloody hell! You are so biased, that probably can't even tell what is wrong with your statement.
Not to beat a dead horse, but those 1.2 billion Hindus and 1.8 billion Muslims say the same types of things about their god.
But to clarify, are you saying that if a Hindu, sincerely seeks Vishnu, Vishnu will reveal himself to them? Or are you saying, that if they sincerely seek Vishnu, your god will step in and reveal himself to the Hindu?
Not "My God", the "only" God. Some believe that Donald Trump is a monster and some believe he is a savior. The truth is that he is what he is no matter what our image of him is. Anyone who believes Donald Trump exists knows the truth, which is that he exists.
Unfortunatly Donny exists, any atheist will testify for that gruesome fact. Not quite the same for your god thinguie.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 4:31 pm
(August 30, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Oh, bloody hell! You are so biased, that probably can't even tell what is wrong with your statement.
Not to beat a dead horse, but those 1.2 billion Hindus and 1.8 billion Muslims say the same types of things about their god.
But to clarify, are you saying that if a Hindu, sincerely seeks Vishnu, Vishnu will reveal himself to them? Or are you saying, that if they sincerely seek Vishnu, your god will step in and reveal himself to the Hindu?
Not "My God", the "only" God. Some believe that Donald Trump is a monster and some believe he is a savior. The truth is that he is what he is no matter what our image of him is. Anyone who believes Donald Trump exists knows the truth, which is that he exists.
So, this "only" god you speak of, is it the one that: sacrificed himself to himself, in order to act as a loophole for the rules he created?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2019 at 5:18 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 30, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Oh, bloody hell! You are so biased, that probably can't even tell what is wrong with your statement.
Not to beat a dead horse, but those 1.2 billion Hindus and 1.8 billion Muslims say the same types of things about their god.
But to clarify, are you saying that if a Hindu, sincerely seeks Vishnu, Vishnu will reveal himself to them? Or are you saying, that if they sincerely seek Vishnu, your god will step in and reveal himself to the Hindu?
Not "My God", the "only" God. Some believe that Donald Trump is a monster and some believe he is a savior. The truth is that he is what he is no matter what our image of him is. Anyone who believes Donald Trump exists knows the truth, which is that he exists.
He exist be cause you know he exists? I has no idea you were so formidable. 
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 5:25 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2019 at 5:29 pm by Lek.)
(August 30, 2019 at 4:37 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Lek Wrote: Not "My God", the "only" God. Some believe that Donald Trump is a monster and some believe he is a savior. The truth is that he is what he is no matter what our image of him is. Anyone who believes Donald Trump exists knows the truth, which is that he exists.
He exist because you know he exists? I has no idea you were so formidable.
No. God doesn't exist "because" I know he exists. Trump doesn't exist "because" we know he exists.
(August 30, 2019 at 4:31 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 4:20 pm)Lek Wrote: Not "My God", the "only" God. Some believe that Donald Trump is a monster and some believe he is a savior. The truth is that he is what he is no matter what our image of him is. Anyone who believes Donald Trump exists knows the truth, which is that he exists.
So, this "only" god you speak of, is it the one that: sacrificed himself to himself, in order to act as a loophole for the rules he created?
Christians believe that and other theists don't. Are they right about that? I don't know. Will God turn them away if they're wrong? I don't think so.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 5:35 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2019 at 5:40 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(August 30, 2019 at 5:25 pm)Lek Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 4:37 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: He exist because you know he exists? I has no idea you were so formidable.
No. God doesn't exist "because" I know he exists. Trump doesn't exist "because" we know he exists.
A more clear demonstration of difference between what is, and what is wished, is hard to imagine.
Trump is taken to exist because demonstrably effective types of evidence of his existence is numerous, while countervailing evidence is nonexistent, despite his non existence being sincerely wished. In other words, he existed in my mind because he exists in reality despite my wishes.
God is taken to exist because demonstrable effective types of evidence for his existence is nonexistent, while countervailing evidence is numerous, just because his existence is sincerely wished. In other words he exist in your mind solely because you and mental weaklings just like you wish him to exist.
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RE: God, Energy and Matter
August 30, 2019 at 5:55 pm
(August 30, 2019 at 5:35 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (August 30, 2019 at 5:25 pm)Lek Wrote: No. God doesn't exist "because" I know he exists. Trump doesn't exist "because" we know he exists.
A more clear demonstration of difference between what is, and what is wished, is hard to imagine.
Trump is taken to exist because demonstrably effective types of evidence of his existence is numerous, while countervailing evidence is nonexistent, despite his non existence being sincerely wished. In other words, he existed in my mind because he exists in reality despite my wishes.
God is taken to exist because demonstrable effective types of evidence for his existence is nonexistent, while countervailing evidence is numerous, just because his existence is sincerely wished. In other words he exist in your mind solely because you and mental weaklings just like you wish him to exist.
What I implied is that we don't make things exist. You believe God doesn't exist and I do, but whether or not he exists doesn't depend on our beliefs.
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