Michigan Bans Flavored E Cigarettes

[Mermaid]

So it went just like that? But, but what happened with "good guy with the vape pen" and "vape pens don't kill people but people kill people"?
Or other classics like "liberal media", "Hitler banned vape pens", not to mention George Soros and Hillary...

Well, to be fair, vaping is not specifically in our constitution.

[Fake Messiah]

So it went just like that? But, but what happened with "good guy with the vape pen" and "vape pens don't kill people but people kill people"?
Or other classics like "liberal media", "Hitler banned vape pens", not to mention George Soros and Hillary...

Well, to be fair, vaping is not specifically in our constitution.

Hey, Jesus is also not in Constitution and yet you still have people like Sebastian Gorka going in public and saying: When Schools Ban the Bible, It Leads to “Death Camps”
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019...ath-camps/

Or Trump rolling back clean water protection because this was the way for Hilary to destroy jobs.

Or climate change being Deep State and Chinese hoax.

Or Obamacare being another way for George Soros to kill people and make money
https://catholicexchange.com/george-soro...obama-care

Windmills causing cancer.

[Vince]

I saw a stat that JUUL accounts for 75% of all e-cig sales in the US.  My two HS daughters know how bad it is in their school, most kids in their HS that vape use a JUUL product.  I think it will be a matter of time before tobacco companies own nearly 100% of the e-cig/vap market.  They have the money and why would they care if they sell cigarettes or e-cig type products?  They are about making money not about a particular way to do that.

See above.

They can't corner the custom vaporizer market and guarantee long-term, repeat consumption if folks are to control their own nicotine intake (or eschew nicotine together) and are able to buy customized vape liquid from Mom and Pop vendors or make it themselves.

One can buy and use a liquid vaporizer for years and never put a dime in Big Tobacco's pockets and never, ever become addicted to nicotine.
That's not good news for the future of Big Tobacco.

I said almost 100% of the market. The fact is that most vaporizer products purchased contain nicotine, once they are addicted they will continue to use the nicotine containing vaporizers. Just because some people will avoid purchasing from a tobacco company does not mean that most will. Also, it seems that non nicotine containing products may not be physically addictive but they seem to be addictive psychologically.

The tobacco companies are lobbying against vaporizing laws in general and why wouldn't they make non nicotine products that are cheaper than a mom and pop shop? I believe they will, they have no reason not to. They are about making money the how is inconsequential.

[Athene]

See above.

They can't corner the custom vaporizer market and guarantee long-term, repeat consumption if folks are to control their own nicotine intake (or eschew nicotine together) and are able to buy customized vape liquid from Mom and Pop vendors or make it themselves.

One can buy and use a liquid vaporizer for years and never put a dime in Big Tobacco's pockets and never, ever become addicted to nicotine.
That's not good news for the future of Big Tobacco.

I said almost 100% of the market.  The fact is that most vaporizer products purchased contain nicotine, once they are addicted they will continue to use the nicotine containing vaporizers.    Just because some people will avoid purchasing from a tobacco company does not mean that most will.  Also, it seems that non nicotine containing products may not be physically addictive but they seem to be addictive psychologically.  

The tobacco companies are lobbying against vaporizing laws in general and why wouldn't they make non nicotine products that are cheaper than a mom and pop shop?  I believe they will, they have no reason not to.  They are about making money the how is inconsequential.

The tobacco industry's customer base continuously dies off in large numbers. Chemical addiction (to nicotine) is necessary to ensure that replacement consumers stay dependent on Big Tobacco's products for the duration and allows the industry to maintain it's profit margins. That's why tobacco has been genetically engineered to contain more nicotine and why BT formulates their products to ensure maximum delivery of said addictive substance. Many of the major e-cig brands contain more nicotine than cigarettes and most of the e-cigs they offer require purchasing an entirely new unit/set up for folks wishing to "step down" their nicotine levels.

They need people hooked. Chemically hooked.

There are plenty of consumers who resent these tactics, myself included, and would rather not feed the Big Tobacco beast at all. I've also noted that most of the non or nominally-addicted recreational vapers I know will not knowingly purchase from BT because they simply do not trust the industry to properly disclose nicotine levels and/or are opposed to the industry in general ethical terms.

So yes, I think that the ability for vaporizer users to customize the amount of nicotine themselves and use little or none is deeply problematic for the industry. 
It can't replace the revenue lost by the deaths of half a million addicted consumers every year with a growing number of non or nominally-addicted people have no need or motivation to be product loyal.

If younger generations choose vaping as the Premier Pointless and Utterly Stupid Habit over smoking, then the tobacco industry could conceivably be screwed within a decade or so. It would undoubtedly still exist, but it would be greatly diminished from what is today in terms of revenue and political influence.

[Vince]

The tobacco industry's customer base continuously dies off in large numbers. Chemical addiction (to nicotine) is necessary to ensure that replacement consumers stay dependent on Big Tobacco's products for the duration and allows the industry to maintain it's profit margins. That's why tobacco has been genetically engineered to contain more nicotine and why BT formulates their products to ensure maximum delivery of said addictive substance. Many of the major e-cig brands contain more nicotine than cigarettes and most of the e-cigs they offer require purchasing an entirely new unit/set up for folks wishing to "step down" their nicotine levels.

They need people hooked. Chemically hooked.

I agree.

There are plenty of consumers who resent these tactics, myself included, and would rather not feed the Big Tobacco beast at all.

This is where I am not convinced. How many is plenty? When JUUL sells most of these products and is partially owned by Altria group does not seem to indicate that there is enough to scare the tobacco companies.

I've also noted that most of the non or nominally-addicted recreational vapers I know will not knowingly purchase from BT because they simply do not trust the industry to properly disclose nicotine levels and/or are opposed to the industry in general ethical terms.

I am not convinced that there is enough of these people to make a difference.

So yes, I think that the ability for vaporizer users to customize the amount of nicotine themselves and use little or none is deeply problematic for the industry. 

It can't replace the revenue lost by the deaths of half a million addicted consumers every year with a growing number of non or nominally-addicted people have no need or motivation to be product loyal.

If younger generations choose vaping as the Premier Pointless and Utterly Stupid Habit over smoking, then the tobacco industry could conceivably be screwed within a decade or so. It would undoubtedly still exist, but it would be greatly diminished from what is today in terms of revenue and political influence.

I guess we will see what happens.

[Aegon]

For the record, it looks like these conditions are arising from vaping cheap, knock-off THC vape products. As in, weed vapes. Not nicotine or e-cigs. Specifically ones you'd get from sketchy websites and "back alleys."

Turns out instead of banning e-cigs, they just need to legalize marijuana!

[LastPoet]

For the record, it looks like these conditions are arising from vaping cheap, knock-off THC vape products. As in, weed vapes. Not nicotine or e-cigs. Specifically ones you'd get from sketchy websites and "back alleys."

Turns out instead of banning e-cigs, they just need to legalize marijuana!

Vaping weed? What about the whole culture of taking 3 hits and passing the joint? Is it dead? I got my hand rolling skills from that time. I was the designated roller. I always made the most impressive blunts!

[Athene]

The tobacco industry's customer base continuously dies off in large numbers. Chemical addiction (to nicotine) is necessary to ensure that replacement consumers stay dependent on Big Tobacco's products for the duration and allows the industry to maintain it's profit margins. That's why tobacco has been genetically engineered to contain more nicotine and why BT formulates their products to ensure maximum delivery of said addictive substance. Many of the major e-cig brands contain more nicotine than cigarettes and most of the e-cigs they offer require purchasing an entirely new unit/set up for folks wishing to "step down" their nicotine levels.

They need people hooked. Chemically hooked.

I agree.

There are plenty of consumers who resent these tactics, myself included, and would rather not feed the Big Tobacco beast at all.

This is where I am not convinced.  How many is plenty? When JUUL sells most of these products and is partially owned by Altria group does not seem to indicate that there is enough to scare the tobacco companies.

I've also noted that most of the non or nominally-addicted recreational vapers I know will not knowingly purchase from BT because they simply do not trust the industry to properly disclose nicotine levels and/or are opposed to the industry in general ethical terms.

 I am not convinced that there is enough of these people to make a difference.

So yes, I think that the ability for vaporizer users to customize the amount of nicotine themselves and use little or none is deeply problematic for the industry. 

It can't replace the revenue lost by the deaths of half a million addicted consumers every year with a growing number of non or nominally-addicted people have no need or motivation to be product loyal.

If younger generations choose vaping as the Premier Pointless and Utterly Stupid Habit over smoking, then the tobacco industry could conceivably be screwed within a decade or so. It would undoubtedly still exist, but it would be greatly diminished from what is today in terms of revenue and political influence.

I guess we will see what happens.

Around these parts you're much more like to see a younger person using custom vape devices more than e-cigs. E-cigs seem to be more the of choice of current and former smokers; Presumably because they have more of the look and feel of an actual cigarette.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I suppose, and see how the saga unfolds.

[Aegon]

For the record, it looks like these conditions are arising from vaping cheap, knock-off THC vape products. As in, weed vapes. Not nicotine or e-cigs. Specifically ones you'd get from sketchy websites and "back alleys."

Turns out instead of banning e-cigs, they just need to legalize marijuana!

Vaping weed? What about the whole culture of taking 3 hits and passing the joint? Is it dead? I got my hand rolling skills from that time. I was the designated roller. I always made the most impressive blunts!

It still exists, don't get me wrong but come on... we live in a capitalist society. Convenience is king. I can get high as shit in the middle of Target now, and with barely any smell! Welcome to 2019.

Also, 2 hits** weed is stronger nowadays, don't be so greedy!