Reason for converting Good Christians

[AtheistPhil]

3)AFAIK(I am not from the US), the people who liberated the blacks are Christians.

While nearly all Modern Christian religions condemn the practice of slavery, the Bible upon which they base their beliefs does not condemn slavery, and numerous passages in the Bible have been used in support the practice. This paradox requires some explaining.

In the early years of Christianity, slavery was a normal feature of the economy and society in the Roman Empire and well into the Middle Ages and beyond. Centuries later, as the abolition movement took shape across the globe, groups who advocated slavery's abolition attempted to harness Christian teachings in support of their positions. However, they were forced to refer to the 'spirit of Christianity' rather than quote the Bible. On the other hand, those opposed to abolition and equal rights were able to and did quote numerous Biblical passages that permit and regulate the practice of slavery.

(wikipedia, christianity and slavery)

Believing in the 'modern spirit of christianity' is OK, but believing in the Bible can justify a lot of monstruosity. That's why the strict belief in christianity and the Bible is potentially dangerous.

[CoxRox]

I think it is fair to say that some individuals have improved their quality of life by believing in God/s. I have various books about people who were drug addicts, prostitutes, murderers etc, who turned their lives around because this 'god' was real enough to them to motivate them to change. I'm not saying they couldn't have changed without this 'God' but they needed something powerful (and I suppose the claims of Christianity and no doubt other religions offered them hope and love- love from this 'god' and love from the people representing this god.) If I imagine one of them: a drug addicted, knife weilding thug glancing up at the bus that tells him this is all there is so tough shit if you pulled the short straw in life, then I doubt he'd feel motivated in the same way. I'm sure it's a lot to do with how strong a person is mentally and emotionally, but so many people aren't strong or are damaged so if this 'god' has this very good effect on them (you may call it the lesser of two evils) and 'he' is real to them, then it is no wonder they cling to this 'prop' this 'emotional crutch'.

[Meatball]

Put it this way. And I am not talking about terrorists. There are many many people who have lead and are leading crime free, drug free lives BECAUSE they converted into Christianity from Atheism.

Someone can't be a good person without being "drug-free" or "crime-free"?

Crimes are simply something defined by a government. Some governments would tell you homosexuality is a crime.

Define "drug-free".

[LukeMC]

2)Christians do not tell us all or even Most of our science is wrong.

In which case, these christians ought to read their bible.

When they become Scientists, then and only then let them know evolution.

Lol. "Let them", as if you have the right to dictate every piece of information distributed and exactly when it happens? Oh that's right, you're running a religious regime, I should come to expect such nonsense.

To me, this is the biggest one:"1) Put it this way. And I am not talking about terrorists. There are many many people who have lead and are leading crime free, drug free lives BECAUSE they converted into Christianity from Atheism. Are there ANY drug dealers or criminals who have lead righteouss lives BECAUSE they converted from Chrstianity to Atheism?"

The same can be said for martial arts, sports teams or dancing lessons. All sorts of things can turn peoples lives around. This doesn't require talking snakes, water-walkers, wine-transformers, parting seas, magic trees or women made from ribs (or eternal damnation).

I'll do the cons then
Scientific regress
Intellectual regress
Homosexual massacres
Non-virgin bride massacres
Sabbath issues
A contradictory law system
An uproar over whose misinterpretation of the bible should be accepted
The end of modern medicine (probably replaced by prayer)
Increase in demand for eye surgery (Jesus said to take your eye out if you look on a woman with lust... creepy)
Increased suicide rates (he also told people to drink poison to test their faith)
Landscaping issues (he also said if you pray for a mountain to move in his name, the mountain will move)
Okay now I'm just getting silly But these are serious issues in my opinion!

[Ephrium]

Look, you got to practical. In this day and age, christianity is certainly declining but my point is there is no need to make it decline faster. In one swoop, these points of yours are made irrelevant"

Homosexual massacres
Non-virgin bride massacres
Sabbath issues
A contradictory law system
An uproar over whose misinterpretation of the bible should be accepted
The end of modern medicine (probably replaced by prayer)
Increase in demand for eye surgery (Jesus said to take your eye out if you look on a woman with lust... creepy)
Increased suicide rates (he also told people to drink poison to test their faith)
Landscaping issues (he also said if you pray for a mountain to move in his name, the mountain will move)
Okay now I'm just getting silly But these are serious issues in my opinion!"

You got to admit that Christianity wont advance back to what it once was .

And we should try to let it survive for as long as it can, for the very good point I have mentioned that it can and have caused many people to refrain from Crimes and misdeeds. This is but a fact.

To me, this is the biggest one:"1) Put it this way. And I am not talking about terrorists. There are many many people who have lead and are leading crime free, drug free lives BECAUSE they converted into Christianity from Atheism. Are there ANY drug dealers or criminals who have lead righteouss lives BECAUSE they converted from Chrstianity to Atheism?"

The same can be said for martial arts, sports teams or dancing lessons. All sorts of things can turn peoples lives around. This doesn't require talking snakes, water-walkers, wine-transformers, parting seas, magic trees or women made from ribs (or eternal damnation).

I'll do the cons then
Scientific regress
Intellectual regress
Homosexual massacres
Non-virgin bride massacres
Sabbath issues
A contradictory law system
An uproar over whose misinterpretation of the bible should be accepted
The end of modern medicine (probably replaced by prayer)
Increase in demand for eye surgery (Jesus said to take your eye out if you look on a woman with lust... creepy)
Increased suicide rates (he also told people to drink poison to test their faith)
Landscaping issues (he also said if you pray for a mountain to move in his name, the mountain will move)
Okay now I'm just getting silly But these are serious issues in my opinion!

---

Also,I have read "http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/r188.pdf" . Nowhere does it state the % of religious convicts vs atheist ones.

Given that How logical natural selection seems to us, we have to admit too that it is logical that a believe in a God who will punish people for their misdeeds will only serve, in general, to a lower crime rate. This even we Atheists have to admit.

[Demonaura]

By what you are saying, you think it is a good thing that the church is there forcing people to be good with threats. Well, if that's a good thing then screw the church the government should find a way to punish people for eternity and force everyone to swear allegiance to them and be good by their definition or suffer this punishment.

In saying that you beleive the church does good in forcing people to be good via threats of harm you are saying it is a good thing for any leader to do. I'll be honest here I find that absolutely repulsive and I hope you don't ever carry this idea onto parenting.

People pretending to be good because of a threat will only cause instability, petty crime and people reverting to terrorisim. It is an inhumane, unjust form of leadership that puts powerful people in command over the weak. Good people will do good and evil people will do evil, and evil people will NOT become good because you threaten to hurt them horribly if they don't. They will try to get around it, they will try to hurt you, and I won't blame them.

I have not once seen anything that would suggest to me that an evil person refrained from doing an act because of a threat or religion. In every case I've seen it done they acted as I said above, they rebelled, they fought back and they stole at every oppertunity they could get away with it.

And I never even touched that the extremely minor chance that christianity did prevent someone from doing evil, it also drives millions more to DO evil in it's name. And THAT is a fact I can back up with real situations, prop 8 banned gay marrage in Caifornia, USA not long ago. Religious hate causing thousands of good people to do an evil act, forcing others to do as they say because they say so. I doubt you can present evidence that religion prevents evil any any real way compared to the ammount of good people doing evil in the name of religion.

For those who want a short version of all that: Hate based systems of control create more hate. (and I have no idea how much of this post I actually want to keep but screw it I'm posting it anyways)

[DD_8630]

Given that How logical natural selection seems to us, we have to admit too that it is logical that a believe in a God who will punish people for their misdeeds will only serve, in general, to a lower crime rate. This even we Atheists have to admit.

But to believe in a God that will forgive you no matter what your sins, what's that gonna do to the crime rate?

And what does natural selection have to do with anything?

[Demonaura]

I think he meant that, if we can say that natural selection makes logical sense we should also be able to say that it is logical that religion lowers crime rate. I disagree, and so do studies.

http://askville.amazon.com/Religion-pris...Id=8384184 - source

"In **1997**, the Federal Bureau of Prisons released the professed religious adherence rate of those in the U.S. Federal Prison system.

Christians make up about 80% of the American population AND prison population.

However, Atheists make up about 8% of the American population but only 0.2% of the prison population.

On the flip side, only about 1-3% of Americans are Muslim, but 7.2% of inmates are Muslim."

While I wouldn't put all my stock in this, it's another nail in the coffin for the beleif that religion causes people to avoid evil acts.

[LukeMC]

Look, you got to practical. In this day and age, christianity is certainly declining but my point is there is no need to make it decline faster. In one swoop, these points of yours are made irrelevant"

Homosexual massacres
Non-virgin bride massacres
Sabbath issues
A contradictory law system
An uproar over whose misinterpretation of the bible should be accepted
The end of modern medicine (probably replaced by prayer)
Increase in demand for eye surgery (Jesus said to take your eye out if you look on a woman with lust... creepy)
Increased suicide rates (he also told people to drink poison to test their faith)
Landscaping issues (he also said if you pray for a mountain to move in his name, the mountain will move)
Okay now I'm just getting silly But these are serious issues in my opinion!"

You got to admit that Christianity wont advance back to what it once was .

I don't find those points irrelevent. If they're christians, then will they not be allowed to read their own bible? Or will you write your own book for them to follow? You seem to be in favour of a nation of people who call themselves christians, but really don't resemble anything a christian should be. Christians who don't follow their own bible are hardly christian's at all. Just theists who know a few bible verses they heard in church.

[Ephrium]

As was mentioned already, my thread is about the good Christians in your neighbourhood which this forum had some plans to advertise Atheism to, not those in terrorist areas, so keep them out.

"But to believe in a God that will forgive you no matter what your sins, what's that gonna do to the crime rate?
"

I can rebut Demonura and 8630's posts with this. Not only does the Christian god imply punishment for misdeeds, it tells us what a person who obeys god should do. Hence, just one example, love thy neighbour as thyself.

Hence they will at least believe that God wants them to do certain good stuff. There is first this basic aspect. The punishment or threat is only if this aspect, what god wants, is not obeyed.

With God, there are good reasons for themselves to do good, first, God wants them to, then punishment if they dont.

Demonura was overfocusing on the Threat aspect.



What I had mentioned Natural selection for is that, it is so logical and natural to us. It should be Natural and logical to us that a belief in God can only lower crime rates. Any one atheists truely believe otherwise?