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The face veil pre-dates Islam
#11
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
Face veil.

Paper bag.


...

Same function...

Hilarious
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#12
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
In an alternate reality where Islam never got a foothold, the Middle East most likely comes under Orthodox Christianity, and the women still wind up covering their heads, and possibly even wear veils due to retention of tribal customs of the Middle East already in place. If one went strictly by the Koran, the only requirement for women's dress is that it be modest. Modesty includes not drawing undue attention to oneself and arguably would be better met by adopting the prevailing dress of the region rather than sticking with traditional clothing that causes the woman to stand out; but that last part is just my humble opinion.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#13
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, if the veil pre-dates Islam, then Johnson isn't being anti-Muslim, he's being anti-Arab.

And I really, REALLY doubt the claim that many Muslim women go veiled because 'they want to appear modest'.  I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru

There is a large possibility in my perspective that he "uses" whatever cause to win more votes; his apology after seeing that xenophobic behavior isn't really winning. In other words he is trying to win both camps right now: the Muslims -via his apology- and the xenophobes via his xenophobic statements.

He's belly dancing over the contradictions.
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#14
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
He apologized?  That doesn't sound like Boris...

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#15
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:47 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(December 9, 2019 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, if the veil pre-dates Islam, then Johnson isn't being anti-Muslim, he's being anti-Arab.

And I really, REALLY doubt the claim that many Muslim women go veiled because 'they want to appear modest'.  I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru

And if they don't go veiled they'll be stoned.

This is a xenophobic argument-wannabe against Islam.
Stoning does not exist in the Quran as a sentence, the hardest sentence is flogging who has adultery 100 times only -this is literally mentioned in the Quran; 100 flogs only-.

It's a hard sentence, but it is not comparable to stoning; which is a Jewish sentence not Islamic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#Judaism

Quote:The crimes punishable by stoning were the following:

Stoning is a Jewish sentence.
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#16
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
Yes, the Quran doesn't mention stoning.  But the Haditha do, and a lot of Muslim societies practice it.  Saying that stoning is not an Islamic practice because it isn't mentioned in the Quran is like saying that praying with folded hands isn't Christian because it doesn't happen in the Bible.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#17
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:47 am)Deesse23 Wrote:
(December 9, 2019 at 5:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: From wikipedia, repeat after me:


The face veil pre-dates Islam


The face veil pre-dates Islam

From wikipedia, the same article you cited, first paragraph, second sentence, repeat, three times:
It's very ironic and suspicious that the segment of text begins with:
Quote:The face veil pre-dates Islam, and had been used by certain Arabian pre-Islamic cultures.

Then it flies to a contradictory statement:
Quote:Culturally, it is "a custom imported from Najd, a region in Saudi Arabia and the power base of its Salafi fundamentalist form of Islam. Within Muslim countries it is very contested and considered fringe."[1][2]

How the hell does it predates Islam, but at the same time imported from Islamic region ?

The full statement is contradictory, either the first section of it is right, or the second section of it is right.
Choose.
But if we looked at the sources (by clicking on the numbers after the segment) we can understand why it's contradictory:
Quote:
  1. References1. Manea, Elham (27 August 2017). "Pauline Hanson's Senate stunt shows why we need to confront the ideology behind the burqa". The Sydney Morning Herald. Archived from the original on 24 March 2018. Retrieved 29 April 2018. 2. Abaya, Miss (19 December 2018). "Ultimate Abaya Guide – Everything You Ever Wanted To Know". Miss Abaya. Retrieved 19 December 2018.


So the source is literally taken from  a right-wing warrior called "Paulina Hanson":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson

The second source does not open.

So watch out. I'm assuming the reader is smart enough to know how to track sources in wikipedia, it's very fair; I advice you not to read for the likes of Pauline Hanson and invest your time on forums to distinguish what propaganda is

Quote:Is it a *choice* to adopt what somebody else telling you is a requirement?

Yes. Of course. It's called "adopting a cause"..just like Boris.
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#18
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:32 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
Quote:Is it a *choice* to adopt what somebody else telling you is a requirement?

Yes. Of course. It's called "adopting a cause"..just like Boris.

Facepalm
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#19
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
A lot of things pre date Islam. It's just that creators of Islam took the worst and stupidest things from junkyard of human ideas and made a religion out of it, some of which include: FGM, face veils, flat Earth, God, angels, genies, fatwas, jihad, killing people for apostasy, beating women, antisemitism, etc.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#20
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: In an alternate reality where Islam never got a foothold, the Middle East most likely comes under Orthodox Christianity, and the women still wind up covering their heads, and possibly even wear veils due to retention of tribal customs of the Middle East already in place. If one went strictly by the Koran, the only requirement for women's dress is that it be modest. Modesty includes not drawing undue attention to oneself and arguably would be better met by adopting the prevailing dress of the region rather than sticking with traditional clothing that causes the woman to stand out; but that last part is just my humble opinion.

The Quran only mentions the modest dress Muslim women should dress, as this only verse it stating:


Quote:Sura 24, The Quran:
Sahih International

(31) And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.


Ironically, you will see the opposite happening, with the Muslim institution focusing on "covering the head" and not focusing on exposing the breasts via very tight clothes like the verse actually says, or not exciting fetishes like the obvious warning from making a sound with their feet..

But there is no other verse speaking about this, so why are Muslims so obsessed about women and how they dress? is it insecurity like Boru said?

I think if Christianity ruled in the M.E; things would be the same, but with Jesus instead of Mohammed

(December 9, 2019 at 6:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: He apologized?  That doesn't sound like Boris...

Boru

The asshole withdrew everything he said about Muslim women:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/no...tive-party

Quote:Boris Johnson has apologised for Islamophobia within the Conservative party as a Tory candidate accused the prime minister of fanning the flames of anti-Muslim prejudice.

Which is an obvious indication that it's a cheap way to flame things up and get the votes he so needs.

(December 9, 2019 at 6:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yes, the Quran doesn't mention stoning.  But the Haditha do, and a lot of Muslim societies practice it.  Saying that stoning is not an Islamic practice because it isn't mentioned in the Quran is like saying that praying with folded hands isn't Christian because it doesn't happen in the Bible.

Boru

I reject the Hadith for this exact reason: so the bold "but" would be obsolete. It is obsolete against the Quran alone without other books that twist its cause and message.

With the Quran alone, you can say good bye to many contradictions in both the Sunni and the Shiite faiths, you can see "a clear" version of Islam and what it is truly is.

(December 10, 2019 at 2:54 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: A lot of things pre date Islam. It's just that creators of Islam took the worst and stupidest things from junkyard of human ideas and made a religion out of it, some of which include: FGM, face veils, flat Earth, God, angels, genies, fatwas, jihad, killing people for apostasy, beating women, antisemitism, etc.

Okay..let's break down your comment:

Quote:It's just that creators of Islam took the worst and stupidest things from junkyard of human ideas and made a religion out of it

Like it's a conspiracy theory; right?
I mean based on this section of your comment; Mohammed -peace be upon him- was a troll with supernatural powers: I mean he knew exactly how to troll humanity with a comic book he called "the Quran".

Right? what a troll !
They warn you from supernatural trolls all the time !!

Quote:some of which include: FGM

No. FGM is not even mentioned in the Quran. It's a habit of heathen societies; not Muslim.

Quote:face veils

No. The whole Quran doesn't even mention face veils.

Quote:flat Earth

No. lol. Please bring me a verse from the Quran because this will be interesting.

Quote:God

Yes. True. AKA Allah.

Quote:angels

Yes. True.

Quote:genies

Yes. BTW there is a whole Sura in the Quran about this "cosmic race" that is known to be formed out of fire.

Quote:fatwas

No.

Quote:jihad

Yes. But the Jihad of the White House that invaded Afghanistan is not really Jihad.

Quote:killing people for apostasy

No. Evidence please

Quote:beating women

Yes if they beat you first

Quote:antisemitism

No.
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