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The face veil pre-dates Islam
#1
The face veil pre-dates Islam
I didn't post this in the news/politics section because I wanted to expose Boris Johnson; I want to show how ignorant he is with the laws of other religions, and how xenophobic and racist he is.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po...79306.html


Quote:Boris Johnson has been reported to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission after suggesting women wearing niqabs resembled “letter boxes” and “bank robbers”.
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Labour MP David Lammy added: “Muslim women are having their burkas pulled off by thugs in our streets and Boris Johnson’s response is to mock them for ‘looking like letter boxes’.

“Our pound-shop Donald Trump is fanning the flames of Islamophobia to propel his grubby electoral ambitions.”

First of all, Niqab is a dress-code that women from Middle Eastern roots dress.
It's an ancient dress code that existed before Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq%C4%81b


Quote:The face veil pre-dates Islam, and had been used by certain Arabian pre-Islamic cultures. Culturally, it is "a custom imported from Najd, a region in Saudi Arabia and the power base of its Salafi fundamentalist form of Islam. Within Muslim countries it is very contested and considered fringe."[1][2]

From wikipedia, repeat after me:


The face veil pre-dates Islam


The face veil pre-dates Islam


Second, many Muslim women choose to wear it because they want to look modest. In other words; they are telling horny men like Donald Trump and Boris to keep out and go satisfy their eyes elsewhere.

Third, why am I not hearing Boris criticizing Jewish funny hats? honestly they look like...no it's not my right to fight somebody over a dress code they chose.

One thing I so look down upon is trying to "change somebody" forcefully. Either it's a religion, or a political affiliation or a music taste. To each their freedom, or else I am:

1-Trying to flame a meaningless war to suck an advantage out of it
2-Being an ignorant person who needs immediate education

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#2
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
I really don't think Johnson is an Islamophobe, at least not specifically - he's an all-purpose, equal opportunity xenophobe.  He equally and indiscriminately hates and fears anything he doesn't understand (which covers a LOT of ground).

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#3
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
Oh good, it's even more primitive than I thought.
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#4
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
Well, if the veil pre-dates Islam, then Johnson isn't being anti-Muslim, he's being anti-Arab.

And I really, REALLY doubt the claim that many Muslim women go veiled because 'they want to appear modest'.  I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#5
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, if the veil pre-dates Islam, then Johnson isn't being anti-Muslim, he's being anti-Arab.

And I really, REALLY doubt the claim that many Muslim women go veiled because 'they want to appear modest'.  I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru

And if they don't go veiled they'll be stoned.
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#6
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 5:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: From wikipedia, repeat after me:


The face veil pre-dates Islam


The face veil pre-dates Islam

From wikipedia, the same article you cited, first paragraph, second sentence, repeat, three times:
Quote:According to the majority of Muslim scholars and Islamic schools of thought, face veiling is a requirement of Islam; however a minority of Muslim scholars assert that women are not required to cover their face in public.

(December 9, 2019 at 5:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Second, many Muslim women choose to wear it because they want to look modest. In other words; they are telling horny men like Donald Trump and Boris to keep out and go satisfy their eyes elsewhere.
This, or somebody could adress the actual problem ("horny men") instead of shifting the burden on the victims (women).

...or those women possibly care less about *horny men* somewhere else (who wouldnt have a chance to look at them anyway) but what a majority of (horny and misogynist?) muslim scholars (mostly men i suppose) are telling them?
Quote:According to the majority of Muslim scholars and Islamic schools of thought, face veiling is a requirement of Islam; however a minority of Muslim scholars assert that women are not required to cover their face in public.


(December 9, 2019 at 5:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Third, why am I not hearing Boris criticizing Jewish funny hats? honestly they look like...no it's not my right to fight somebody over a dress code they chose.
Is it a *choice* to adopt what somebody else telling you is a requirement?
Quote:According to the majority of Muslim scholars and Islamic schools of thought, face veiling is a requirement of Islam; however a minority of Muslim scholars assert that women are not required to cover their face in public.


(December 9, 2019 at 5:40 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: One thing I so look down upon is trying to "change somebody" forcefully.
So you you think "most Muslim scholars" are wrong? Why did you just try to whitewash the history and background of the veil by leaving out what the majority of muslim scholars are wrongly telling women is a requirement to be a muslima?
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#7
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:47 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(December 9, 2019 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, if the veil pre-dates Islam, then Johnson isn't being anti-Muslim, he's being anti-Arab.

And I really, REALLY doubt the claim that many Muslim women go veiled because 'they want to appear modest'.  I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru

And if they don't go veiled they'll be stoned.

Again, patriarchal insecurity:  'If people see my wife's face, she'll sleep with them, so I'd better kill her now to save her the shame.'

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#8
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru
No shit!? Huh

I am shocked, to hear that, shocked!
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#9
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
Religious traditions are expert appropriators. It shouldn't be surprising to find that some institution preserves whatever bits of society it deems useful. It would be puzzling if they didn't, as their ability to grow and spread powerfully depends on their ability to incorporate and be incorporated by the dominant cultural trends in a region.

Every abrahamic tradition has done this. People are still doing it today, finding ways to work memes onto their sunday service billboards.
The essence of poverty, is that it annihilates the future - Orwell.

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#10
RE: The face veil pre-dates Islam
(December 9, 2019 at 7:48 am)Deesse23 Wrote:
(December 9, 2019 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I think it's much more likely that they go veiled because their patriarchal society is mind-wobblingly insecure.

Boru
No shit!?  Huh

I am shocked, to hear that, shocked!

I know, right?  I was surprised myself to learn a tribe of semi-barbarian nomads with a long tradition of treating women like property might be sexually insecure.

Go figure.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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