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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 5:13 am
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 5:15 am by The Grand Nudger.)
No ones dismissed the supernatural out of hand, Lek. The supernatural has been dismissed due to it's centuries long history of documented failure.
Still, it's fun to play. How do you know that some phenomena is in the supernatural category, rather than the ultranatural category?
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 6:00 am
(December 30, 2019 at 11:45 pm)Lek Wrote: https://www.verywellhealth.com/spontaneo...le-3971875
Why do you dismiss the supernatural out of hand when science can't answer the question? Why not pursue that option? I think it's because science has specific boundaries and you refuse to try to go beyond those boundaries. You have complete trust in a method that leaves so much unsolved. Einstein died still not accepting quantum theory because he couldn't get past his preconceived notions.
Because nothing supernatural has ever in the history of the world, once properly investigated, found actually to be real.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 7:46 am
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 7:46 am by Mr.wizard.)
(December 30, 2019 at 11:45 pm)Lek Wrote: https://www.verywellhealth.com/spontaneo...le-3971875
Why do you dismiss the supernatural out of hand when science can't answer the question? Why not pursue that option? I think it's because science has specific boundaries and you refuse to try to go beyond those boundaries. You have complete trust in a method that leaves so much unsolved. Einstein died still not accepting quantum theory because he couldn't get past his preconceived notions.
Nobody dismissed the Supernatural out of hand, the question is why do you include the supernatural out of hand as a possible explanation? Yes Science has boundaries, the natural world, we aren't refusing to go beyond on that we just don't see that there is anything beyond that or the method used to investigate it, but that is not a problem for science, that is a problem for the people making the claim that there is something beyond the natural world.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 9:25 am
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If I had an experience which I sincerely believed was God talking directly to me, how would I be able to prove or disprove what I believe?
You can't and that (for the atheist) continues to be the problem. We have many people believing many different things about different god's all without being able to produce any evidence.
Quote:If I had advanced stage cancer and it suddenly disappeared or went into remission, how could it be proven to be from natural, rather than supernatural causes?
If you claimed it was anything other than the natural world, then you have the same problem, we know that remission happens, and we know from studies about prayer that it has no effect, so why even consider a supernatural option, when even the word 'supernatural' puts us in a world we cannot prove, explore, or do anything with really ?
Quote:If natural science was unable to determine the cause, what method could I use to determine if the origin or cause of these was supernatural? Should I pursue other avenues or rely on science to eventually come up with an answer?
You should say 'science was unable to determine the cause, so my conclusion is that I don't know'
Its much better than making stuff up, really it is.
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 9:31 am
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If I had an experience which I sincerely believed was God talking directly to me, how would I be able to prove or disprove what I believe?
If I had advanced stage cancer and it suddenly disappeared or went into remission, how could it be proven to be from natural, rather than supernatural causes?
If natural science was unable to determine the cause, what method could I use to determine if the origin or cause of these was supernatural? Should I pursue other avenues or rely on science to eventually come up with an answer?
You are standing in ignorance. If someone has cancer remission and our knowlege doesn't explain, it does not mean automatically that its "supernatural". Could be that science, the pursuit of knowlege, hasn't got there yet.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 10:39 am
Cancers sometimes go into remission, and it doesn't particularly track with members of any particular religion. Amputated limbs never go into remission; if there is a supernatural force handing out free cancer remissions indiscriminately, it draws the line at growing limbs back for humans, saving that miracle for certain amphibians and reptiles. Natural explanations have such a great track record that even when I don't know why or how something occurred, I'm not inclined to leap to the supernatural as a valid hypothesis. My inference, based on every other example of something causing something that I know would be 'explanation unknown, but almost certainly natural'.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 1:15 pm
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 1:41 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If I had an experience which I sincerely believed was God talking directly to me, how would I be able to prove or disprove what I believe?
If I had advanced stage cancer and it suddenly disappeared or went into remission, how could it be proven to be from natural, rather than supernatural causes?
If natural science was unable to determine the cause, what method could I use to determine if the origin or cause of these was supernatural? Should I pursue other avenues or rely on science to eventually come up with an answer?
These are questions you need be asking yourself, Lek; not others. How did you determine that the cause of these phenomena are more likely to be supernatural than natural? Without any way to test this, how did you arrive at your conclusion? No one else can tell you Why you believe the things you believe.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 1:26 pm
"God spoke to me in a dream" is a personal favourite, and offers a clue to the source of many waking "deity chats" too, by my mind. Internal dialogues and all that.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm by Lek.)
I think you're right. It does seem true that we have no scientific proof for the existence of the supernatural. There is overwhelming testimony concerning the existence of God and the supernatural, but it is not provable by natural means. After studying the history of humankind and the testimonies of so many who have experienced God and the supernatural, I firmly believe that it's something that God impresses on us by whatever means he determines to use. I could study science until there's nothing more to learn from it and not be able to find any evidence that would disprove that connection God has built between himself and those who experience him. So I just can't make myself not believe what God has put in me.
Maybe you'll agree with me about this. If God truly exists, and wants us to know, he will let us know eventually, and vice versa.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 4:14 pm
(December 30, 2019 at 11:32 pm)Lek Wrote: This has happened many times to many people. When I apply it to myself it's hypothetical. They're scenarios. Sorry. I should have made that clear.
Links - do you not have links? If you don't have something factual to share then blow smoke up someone else's ass.
Do you really think we are going to line up to say you have convinced us that your magical sky fairy cures some people every now and then on a whim.
Wrong audience.
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