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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 4:22 pm
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: I think you're right. It does seem true that we have no scientific proof for the existence of the supernatural. By which you mean none of any sort for any of it. The plural of anecdote is not data.
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: There is overwhelming testimony concerning the existence of God and the supernatural, No, there are a ton of mutually exclusive claims and bugger all evidence.
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: but it is not provable by natural means. Nor by any other means.
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: After studying the history of humankind and the testimonies of so many who have experienced God and the supernatural, I firmly believe that it's something that God impresses on us by whatever means he determines to use. Wait, what? Your god is so incompetent that he/she/it/housecat cannot figure out how to show itself to exist? Really?
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: I could study science until there's nothing more to learn from it Baloney. That is impossible. If science knew everything it would just stop. And it hasn't.
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: and not be able to find any evidence that would disprove that connection God has built between himself and those who experience him. Who, exactly, has experienced him? I was raised RCC. No stupid god showed up no matter how hard I believed.
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: So I just can't make myself not believe what God has put in me. You, and your parents, and your church put it in you. Nobody else. Andrea Yates murdered her five children so that they would be guaranteed to go directly to heaven. She sacrificed herself to eternal damnation willingly for the sake of her children. That is where your religious thinking leads.
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: Maybe you'll agree with me about this. If God truly exists, and wants us to know, he will let us know eventually, and vice versa. No. What is the prick waiting for?
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 4:39 pm
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 4:43 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
He's waiting for the deaths of his most credulous disciples. When they're gone, he won't have to make good on any of their silly promissory notes - and they won't care that they ever made them. Just one more way that god is smarter than the people who follow him.
Anywho, it's no problem at all, for me or for an existent god, that people continue to believe in silly things. We're going to do that from here to armageddon, changing the drapes...at most.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 5:00 pm
(December 31, 2019 at 4:14 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: (December 30, 2019 at 11:32 pm)Lek Wrote: This has happened many times to many people. When I apply it to myself it's hypothetical. They're scenarios. Sorry. I should have made that clear.
Links - do you not have links? If you don't have something factual to share then blow smoke up someone else's ass.
Do you really think we are going to line up to say you have convinced us that your magical sky fairy cures some people every now and then on a whim.
Wrong audience.
I gave this earlier, but here it is.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 5:11 pm
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: I think you're right. It does seem true that we have no scientific proof for the existence of the supernatural.
Nor any kind of proof
Quote:There is overwhelming testimony concerning the existence of God and the supernatural,
You mean people who are convinced they have had an experience of their particular favoured god, or spirit ?
We have zero reason to believe their testimony true, and until we can distinguish between ''all in the head'' or belief and reality, then that state of affairs will continue to be true.
Quote:but it is not provable by natural means.
Or any means we know of.
Quote:Maybe you'll agree with me about this. If God truly exists, and wants us to know, he will let us know eventually, and vice versa.
A god would presumably know what would constitute good and convincing evidence to everyone it a spiritual being wouldn't matter one bit
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 6:38 pm
(December 31, 2019 at 5:00 pm)Lek Wrote: (December 31, 2019 at 4:14 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Links - do you not have links? If you don't have something factual to share then blow smoke up someone else's ass.
Do you really think we are going to line up to say you have convinced us that your magical sky fairy cures some people every now and then on a whim.
Wrong audience.
I gave this earlier, but here it is.
Very convincing...proof of nothing, as expected.
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 7:10 pm
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 7:11 pm by LastPoet.)
(December 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Lek Wrote: I think you're right. It does seem true that we have no scientific proof for the existence of the supernatural. There is overwhelming testimony concerning the existence of God and the supernatural, but it is not provable by natural means. After studying the history of humankind and the testimonies of so many who have experienced God and the supernatural, I firmly believe that it's something that God impresses on us by whatever means he determines to use. I could study science until there's nothing more to learn from it and not be able to find any evidence that would disprove that connection God has built between himself and those who experience him. So I just can't make myself not believe what God has put in me.
Maybe you'll agree with me about this. If God truly exists, and wants us to know, he will let us know eventually, and vice versa.
You really are the christian version of MK ans Atlass. Good salad tough, healthy.
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 8:01 pm
Well, I am tough and healthy. Who or what is this?
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 8:33 pm
(December 31, 2019 at 8:01 pm)Lek Wrote: Well, I am tough and healthy. Who or what is this?
This is a thread you started. You started it. Nobody made you start it.
Now that you have been exposed with no evidence for your peculiar flavour of deity among a cornucopia of available deities, you are suddenly trying to pretend that you never started this thread.
I am unsure why you find this difficult to figure out. Or why you seem to feel that your flavour of diety requires lies.
Any other questions?
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 8:54 pm
I fully admit that I started this thread. What is MK ans Atlass?
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RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 10:25 pm
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If I had advanced stage cancer and it suddenly disappeared or went into remission, how could it be proven to be from natural, rather than supernatural causes?
If natural science was unable to determine the cause, what method could I use to determine if the origin or cause of these was supernatural? Should I pursue other avenues or rely on science to eventually come up with an answer?
The supernatural is a useless and illogical concept because it is inherently non-falsifiable.
There is NO method you can use to prove OR disprove the supernatural, in the technical, philosophical sense.
However you can demonstrate that supernatural explanations are far less likely to be correct, compared to natural explanations, in any given scenario.
Also, there's a false dichotomy hiding here; it isn't just a choice between two possible explanations, regardless how likely or unlikely they may be. Another option is to just admit you don't know and need more information to make a choice.
There are other choices, too. Once in awhile, someone's immune system manages to vanquish cancer on its own. Once in awhile, cancer is misdiagnosed. Once in awhile, cancer goes into remission and reappears later. And so forth.
Finally there is Occam's Razor. Edge cases are adequately explained by natural means. No supernatural deux ex machina is required.
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