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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:16 pm
(March 5, 2020 at 6:58 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Displaying what we believe in, and proving that what we believe in is true...not even remotely the same thing. People live walk and breath islamic terrorism and white supremacy, just as quick examples.
I don't think that you're going to make any headway with this divine nature stuff, the way you've described it. Scrub the trivially false assertions...and fwiw, if this divine business is worth respecting..isn't that the least you can do?
Well like I said, islam is a revelation of old and the followers misunderstood it. That why they think that that is the last religion.
I was just talking about simply just living life how the person believe they should live it.
I doesn't master is we disagree with each other, we are still human beings living on this planet.
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:21 pm
(March 5, 2020 at 3:49 pm)unityconversation Wrote: Hi.
So the perspective that I have is that, we will never fully and completely know God.
The only way to know God is to know His names and attributes.
Even though the human being is an animal just like all other species, we are distinct because we have a divine reality.
The human being has the potential to display all of the names and attributes of God at the highest level, that's what makes us have dominion over the animal.
The names and attributes of God are basically all of the good qualities that is possible for the human being to have, it's just that society doesn't call them that.
The human being is the most perfect of all creation.
What a pile of bull shit!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 5, 2020 at 7:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Human disagreements are meaningful..but sure.. a retreat into platitude would be preferable to more of the earlier bit.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:29 pm
(March 5, 2020 at 6:17 pm)unityconversation Wrote: (March 5, 2020 at 6:12 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is any of that a fact? I think that the only thing happening here, is that a human being is telling me how awesome human beings are.
I'd caution you against predicating your god beliefs on such inanity. That doesn't have to be true, for there to be some god..and if that being untrue rendered your beliefs false..then it would be a self inflicted wound.
Well, human beings are awesome, you don't agree with that?
The human being is awesome because we are the only ones that have a divine nature / reality.
(March 5, 2020 at 6:15 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: What other type of evidence is there?
Reasonable evidence, spiritual evidence.
Define “spiritual evidence” please.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:39 pm
(March 5, 2020 at 7:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (March 5, 2020 at 6:17 pm)unityconversation Wrote: Well, human beings are awesome, you don't agree with that?
The human being is awesome because we are the only ones that have a divine nature / reality.
Reasonable evidence, spiritual evidence.
Define “spiritual evidence” please.
It's simply the the things that are of spiritual / divine nature and not physical.
Like I said the human being has a nature that is beyond just the physical nature, the spiritual / divine nature and that is displayed when we manifest the the names and attributes of God to the physical world.
This might be helpful:
Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-iqan says:
"From that which hath been said it becometh evident that all things, in their inmost reality, testify to the revelation of the names and attributes of God within them. Each according to its capacity, indicateth, and is expressive of, the knowledge of God. So potent and universal is this revelation, that it hath encompassed all things, visible and invisible. Thus hath He revealed: “Hath aught else save Thee a power of revelation which is not possessed by Thee, that it could have manifested Thee? Blind is the eye which doth not perceive Thee.” Likewise, hath the eternal King spoken: “No thing have I perceived, except that I perceived God within it, God before it, or God after it.” Also in the tradition of Kumayl it is written: “Behold, a light hath shone forth out of the Morn of eternity, and lo! its waves have penetrated the inmost reality of all men.” Man, the noblest and most perfect of all created things, excelleth them all in the intensity of this revelation, and is a fuller expression of its glory."
Baha'u'llah also says:
"The traditions and sayings that bear direct reference to Our theme are divers and manifold; We have refrained from quoting them for the sake of brevity. Nay, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is a direct evidence of the revelation within it of the attributes and names of God, inasmuch as within every atom are enshrined the signs that bear eloquent testimony to the revelation of that most great Light. Methinks, but for the potency of that revelation, no being could ever exist. How resplendent the luminaries of knowledge that shine in an atom, and how vast the oceans of wisdom that surge within a drop! To a supreme degree is this true of man, who, among all created things, hath been invested with the robe of such gifts, and hath been singled out for the glory of such distinction. For in him are potentially revealed all the attributes and names of God to a degree that no other created being hath excelled or surpassed. All these names and attributes are applicable to him. Even as He hath said: “Man is My mystery, and I am his mystery.” Manifold are the verses that have been repeatedly revealed in all the heavenly Books and the holy Scriptures, expressive of this most subtle and lofty theme. Even as He hath revealed: “We will surely show them Our signs in the world and within themselves.” Again He saith: “And also in your own selves: will ye not then behold the signs of God?” And yet again He revealeth: “And be ye not like those who forget God, and whom He hath therefore caused to forget their own selves.” In this connection, He Who is the eternal King... hath spoken: “He hath known God who hath known himself.”
So the thing is, if you want to know God... you have to know the human being.
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:53 pm
@ unityconversation Hello again Unity.
I see that your attempt at conversion is not going so well. I'm not sure what you expected. If you want me, as an atheist, to validate any part of your "conversation" as accurate or part of reality (except as a mental construct) then you will be disappointed. All I hear is you regurgitating what you have been programmed by religion to say. Do you understand that after your mental concept/construct (fantasy) has have been challenged, repeating yourself is not helping your position at all? I guess I shouldn't expect much else, religion does not like independent thought.
Humans are special because we can imagine a god = divine reality, got it. Now demonstrate that imagining a god means anything other than humans have the ability to imagine things.
I'm OK with you having a religion. What I'm not OK with is your attempt to get me to believe. As far as I'm concerned your religion is simply a mental crutch and a means for humans to manipulate other humans (good or bad, sometimes both).
BTW, I'm pretty sure my dog considers me a god. How's that for divine reality?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: March 5, 2020 at 7:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It might have been more helpful to list off things that were spiritual, rather than physical. More helpful than quoting what some shaman hath to say.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 8:20 pm
(This post was last modified: March 5, 2020 at 8:37 pm by unityconversation.)
(March 5, 2020 at 7:53 pm)brewer Wrote: @unityconversation Hello again Unity.
I see that your attempt at conversion is not going so well. I'm not sure what you expected. If you want me, as an atheist, to validate any part of your "conversation" as accurate or part of reality (except as a mental construct) then you will be disappointed. All I hear is you regurgitating what you have been programmed by religion to say. Do you understand that after your mental concept/construct (fantasy) has have been challenged, repeating yourself is not helping your position at all? I guess I shouldn't expect much else, religion does not like independent thought.
Humans are special because we can imagine a god = divine reality, got it. Now demonstrate that imagining a god means anything other than humans have the ability to imagine things.
I'm OK with you having a religion. What I'm not OK with is your attempt to get me to believe. As far as I'm concerned your religion is simply a mental crutch and a means for humans to manipulate other humans (good or bad, sometimes both).
BTW, I'm pretty sure my dog considers me a god. How's that for divine reality?
Oh, if you ask me I think that it's going well. What, you think that I've come here to try and convert you all? Then you've basically misunderstood why I came here.
It's impossible to covert someone, the conversion happens only between that person and God.
I'm just here to simply try and answer the questions that comes my way. I understand that this is mainly and atheist site and will fiercely disagree with me. But here's the thing, it doesn't matter, I'm not on a mission to change anyone's mind. I just simply came here to share my views and chitchat among other human beings.
Humans don't imagine God, we display God. Everything that's around us that the human being has created is an example of the divine power that only the human being has.
The human being is the greatest ambassador of God to the physical / animal world.
(March 5, 2020 at 8:20 pm)unityconversation Wrote: (March 5, 2020 at 7:53 pm)brewer Wrote: @unityconversation Hello again Unity.
I see that your attempt at conversion is not going so well. I'm not sure what you expected. If you want me, as an atheist, to validate any part of your "conversation" as accurate or part of reality (except as a mental construct) then you will be disappointed. All I hear is you regurgitating what you have been programmed by religion to say. Do you understand that after your mental concept/construct (fantasy) has have been challenged, repeating yourself is not helping your position at all? I guess I shouldn't expect much else, religion does not like independent thought.
Humans are special because we can imagine a god = divine reality, got it. Now demonstrate that imagining a god means anything other than humans have the ability to imagine things.
I'm OK with you having a religion. What I'm not OK with is your attempt to get me to believe. As far as I'm concerned your religion is simply a mental crutch and a means for humans to manipulate other humans (good or bad, sometimes both).
BTW, I'm pretty sure my dog considers me a god. How's that for divine reality?
Oh, if you ask me I think that it's going well. What, you think that I've come here to try and convert you all? Then you've basically misunderstood why I came here.
It's impossible to covert someone, the conversion happens only between that person and God.
I'm just here to simply try and answer the questions that comes my way. I understand that this is mainly and atheist site and will fiercely disagree with me. But here's the thing, it doesn't matter, I'm not on a mission to change anyone's mind. I just simply came here to share my views and chitchat among other human beings.
Humans don't imagine God, we display God. Everything that's around us that the human being has created is an example of the divine power that only the human being has.
The human being is the greatest ambassador of God to the physical / animal world.
And I forgot to mention you're right, you are a god to your dog, for the simple fact that he is a dog. We are all gods and goddesses compared to the animal.
(March 5, 2020 at 7:55 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It might have been more helpful to list off things that were spiritual, rather than physical. More helpful than quoting what some shaman hath to say.
The divine names and attributes of God.
Abiding One
Adored
All-Abiding
All-Bountiful
All-Compelling
All-Glorious
All-Glorious Being
All-Glorious Lord
All-Hearing
All-Highest
All-Highest Throne
All-Informed
All-Knowing
All-Knowing Physician
All-Merciful
All-Perceiving
All-Pervading
All-Possessing
All-Powerful
All-Praised
All-Searching
All-Seeing
All-Subduing
All-Sufficing
All-Wise
Almighty
Ancient and Sovereign Lord of All
Ancient Beauty
Ancient Being
Ancient King
Ancient of Days
Ancient of Everlasting Days
Author
Bahá
Beauty
Beginning and End
Beloved
Beloved of All Things
Beloved of All Worlds
Beloved of Our Hearts
Beneficient
Benevolent
Best-Beloved
Best-Informed
Bird of Desire
Blissful
Breath
Central Orb of the Universe
Compassionate
Concealer
Concealer of Sins
Counsellor
Creator
Creator of All Names
Creator of the Earth and Heaven
Creator of the Heavens
Day Spring
Day Spring of Glory
Day Spring of the Spirit
Day Star
Day Star of Glory
Day Star of Unfading Glory
Daystar of Eternal Guidance
Deathless Beauty
Desire of All Nations
Desire of Every Understanding Heart
Desire of the World
Desired One
Divine and Infallible Physician
Divine Being
Divine Charmer
Divine Countenance
Divine Educator
Divine Essence
Divine King
Divine Ordainer
Divine Presence
Divine Spirit
Dominant
Educator
Educator of All Beings
Equitable
Essence of All Learning
Essence of Bounty
Essence of Loving Kindness
Eternal
Eternal Being
Eternal Essence
Eternal Essence of Essences
Eternal King
Eternal Lord
Eternal Truth
Ever-Abiding
Ever-Abiding God
Ever-Abiding Lord
Ever-Forgiving
Everlasting Beauty
Everlasting Candle
Everlasting King
Exalted
Exalted One
Expounder
Eye of Grandeur
Faithful
Faithful One
Faithful Spirit
Fashioner
Fashioner of All Created Things
Fashioner of the Heavens
FatherFinger of Holiness
First and Last
Forgiving
Generous One
Glorified
Glorified Countenance
Glorious
Glorious One
Glory
God
God of Mercy
Gracious
Grandeur
Great
Great Being
Great Giver
Guardian
Hand of Divine Power
Hand of Mercy
Hearts' Desire
Heaven of Generosity
Help in Peril
Highest and Last End
Him Who Causeth the Dawn to Break
Holy of Holies
Ideal King
Immortal Beauty
Immortal King
Inaccessible
Incomparable
Incomparable One
Incorruptible
Infinite Spirit
Inmost Essence
Innermost Spirit of Spirits
Invisible
Invisible Essence
Invisible of Invisibles
Invisible One
King
King of Divine Might
King of Everlasting Days
King of Existance
King of Glory
King of Incomparable Glory
King of Kings
King of Names
King of Names and Attributes
Knower
Knower of All Things
Knower of the Unseen and the Seen
Knower of Things Unseen
Knowledge
Life-Giver
Living God
Lode Star
Lord of All Beings
Lord of All Faiths
Lord of All Names
Lord of All Things
Lord of All Worlds
Lord of Bounty
Lord of Creation
Lord of Earth and Heaven
Lord of Eternity
Lord of Lords
Lord of Mankind
Lord of Men
Lord of Names
Lord of Revelation
Lord of the Day of Reckoning
Lord of the Easts and the Wests
Lord of the Exalted Throne
Lord of the Frequented Fane
Lord of the Glorious Throne
Lord of the Kingdom of Utterance
Lord of the Mighty Throne
Lord of Thy Fathers
Lord of Wealth
Lord the Most High
Loved One
Loving
Luminary
Majesty
Maker
Maker of the Heavens
Manifest
manifest and Sovereign Ruler
Merciful
Mercy
Mighty
Monarch of All Names
Most Bountiful
Most Bountiful of the Bountiful
Most Exalted
Most Exalted Being
Most Generous
Most Great
Most Great Beauty
Most Great Light
Most Great Spirit
Most High
Most Holy
Most Manifest
Most Merciful
Most Mighty King
Most Powerful
Mover
Mover of All Beings
MunificentMystic Source
Nightingale of Holiness
Object of All Adoration
Object of All Knowledge
Object of All Learning
Ocean of Everlasting Bounty
Ocean of mercy
Omnipotent
Omnipotent Avenger
Omnipotent Protector
Omniscient
One
One True God
One Who Heareth
Ordainer
Origin of All Things
Paradise
Peerless
Perspicuous
Possessor of All Created Things
Possessor of Infinite Names
Possessor of Names
Potent
Powerful
Praised
Primal Will
Promised One
Protector
Protector of the Doers of Good
Providence
Provider of All Means
Pure and Hidden One
Quickener
Quintessence of All Truth
Quintessence of Glory
Raiser from the Dead
Reckoner
Redeemer
Resplendent
Revealer
Rich
Root of Knowledge
Ruler
Ruler of All Nations
Ruler of Earth and Heaven
Ruler of the Day of Reckoning
Ruler of the Kingdom of Names
Ruler of the Universe
Sea of Seas
Seen and Hidden
Self-Subsisting
Self-Sufficient
Self-Sufficing
Slayer
Source of All Grace
Source of All Knowledge
Source of Divine Grace
Source of Divine Inspiration
Source of Eternal Light
Source of Everlasting Life
Source of Infinite Grace
Source of Power and Wisdom
Source of All Splendour
Sovereign Lord
Sovereign Lord of All
Sovereign Lord of Eternity
Sovereign Ordainer
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Revealer
Sovereign Truth
Spirit
Subtile
Summit
Sun of Truth
Supreme Being
Supreme Ordainer
Supreme Protector
Supreme Redeemer
Supreme Singleness
Sustainer
Tabernacle of Ancient Glory
Tabernacle of Majesty and Glory
The Great Announcement
Throne of Glory
Tongue of Grandeur
Tree of Life
True One
True Physician
Truth
Ultimate Desire
Unchangeable Being
Unchangeable Countenance
Unchangeable Essence
Unconditioned
Unconstrained
Uncreated
Undying Fire
Unfailing Protector
Unifier
Unknowable
Unknowable Essence
Unrestrained
Unseen
Unseen Beauty
Unseen Treasure
Visible and Invisible
Voice
Well-Beloved
Will
Wise
Wise One
Abider
Abiding
Adored
AllBounteous
AllBountiful
AllCompelling
AllForgiving
AllGenerous
AllGlorified
AllGlorious
AllHighest
Allinformed
AllKnowing
AllLoving
AllMerciful
AllPerceiving
AllPossessing
AllPowerful
AllPreserving
AllSeeing
Allsubduing
Allsufficing
AllWise
Almighty
Ancient
Announcer
Answerer
Assister
Attractor
Author
Beauteous
Benevolent
BestBeloved
Bestower
Bestowing
Bounteous
Bountiful
Changeless
Chastiser
Clement
Compassionate
Concealer
Concealing
Confirmer
Conqueror
Creator
Dayspring
Desired
Destroyer
Dispeller
Doer
Enchanter
Enkindler
Enrapture
EverAbiding
EverBestowing
EverBounteous
EverForgiving
EverGiving
Exalted
Expounder
Fashioner
Forgiver
Forgiving
Fountainhead
Generous
Giving
Glorious
Godhead
Gracious
Grandeur
Greatest
Healer
Healing
Hearing
Highest
Inaccessible
Incomparable
Invincible
Invoked
Knower
Lightgiver
Lordship
Magnanimous
Magnificent
Maker
Master
Merciful
Mighty
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient
Onlooker
Ordainer
Ordaining
Pardoner
Patience
Peerless
Physician
Possessor
Powerful
Powerful
Preserver
Protector
Provider
Remover
Revealer
Ruler
Savior
SelfSubsistent
SelfSubsisting
Source
Sovereign
Sublime
Succorer
Succoring
Sufficer
Sufficing
Supreme
Sustainer
Transcendent
Unconditioned
Unconstrained
Unfastener
Unfettered
Unfolder
Unlocker
Unsearchable
Untrammelled
Upraiser
Uprooter
WellBeloved
In some way, shape or form, the human being displays all of these in every area of life and manifest them to the physical world.
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 9:20 pm
(This post was last modified: March 5, 2020 at 9:20 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(March 5, 2020 at 7:39 pm)unityconversation Wrote: (March 5, 2020 at 7:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Define “spiritual evidence” please.
It's simply the the things that are of spiritual / divine nature
What is a divine, spiritual thing? What is it made of? If it’s not material, how could you possibly demonstrate it exists?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 5, 2020 at 9:50 pm
(March 5, 2020 at 9:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (March 5, 2020 at 7:39 pm)unityconversation Wrote: It's simply the the things that are of spiritual / divine nature
What is a divine, spiritual thing? What is it made of? If it’s not material, how could you possibly demonstrate it exists?
When we talk about divine / spiritual things we're just talking about things that are beyond the physical reality.
The divine reality is not made of anything material.
What I keep trying to explain is that the best demonstration of the divine reality and of God is the human being itself because we can manifest the divine names and attributes of God to the physical world .
Let me explain it like this:
You know how in the bible it says that God created the human in His image. We what that really meant is that the human being can display the attributes of God. For instance, we all heard of the will of God right, well guess what we have a will as well. You heard of God being the creator right, well guess what, we are creators as well, ect.
The definition of evidence is:
"the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid".
And the "information" that's in the divine teachings of the baha'i scriptures are "indicating" that the proof of the reality of God is the names and attributes that only the human being can display.
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