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[Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
#21
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
Quote:The Jews eventually gave up the Law of Talion as the barbarity it was; Isa's example to the Christians was to forgive those who wrong you (not that Christians have a good track record AT ALL of following that example). Trading insults gets us nowhere.

Actually, the Jews never gave up the Law of Talion, just the strict, literal interpretation of it. Most societies use some form of lex talonis even today.  The intent of it is to prevent excessive punishment for wrongdoing.  This is why we don't burn people at the stake for shoplifting a fizzy drink.

I'm more than a little bit biased, but I think Irish Brehon Law may be the best example of retributive law yet devised.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#22
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 14, 2020 at 5:12 am)WinterHold Wrote: In Islam it is a guide to self defense, another explicit verse stated that:

Quote:Sura 16, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 126 )   And if you punish [an enemy, O believers], punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed. But if you are patient - it is better for those who are patient.

Trading insults doesn't work at all times, sometimes you need to forgive and let it go.
But sometimes only the returning of the insult -or the attack- works, perhaps armed burglars are an example.

Judaism has similarities to Islam; unlike Christianity -with lesser similarities- which was forged to massive extents by the Romans. Being one religion in my belief -before getting cut between the major famous 2 religions-, Islam is the reform of the two.

Note that it's talking about punishment, not defense. And apparently it's better for those who are patient but you shouldn't feel like you're being advised to be patient....

Returning an attack, that is, defending yourself, isn't an eye for an eye. If you found the robbers and robbed them as punishment, that would be 'an eye for an eye'. In self defense doing more than what they would have done to you can be justified, you can shoot someone even if you're pretty sure they were only going to beat the shit out of you; but you shouldn't shoot them in the back when they've dropped their gun and are running away even if you're pretty sure they would have shot you.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#23
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 12, 2020 at 1:54 pm)WinterHold Wrote: <snip>

[Image: Muhammad.jpg?itok=dpUgy6_m]

See yer man down in the bottom left. One of the many faces of murder. And you can't give out to me about depicting him either. I made sure to get a depiction created by one of your lot.

(March 12, 2020 at 2:52 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: <snipping the fascist authoritarian bullshit>

You're an idiot. At least WinterHold is making an (albeit very bad) effort to engage with his religion and its problems. You simply want to silence anyone who doesn't think it perfect.

How long before you start looking to kill those who disagree with you?
As a species, we are fucked. To the next generation, I offer my inadequate apologies.
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#24
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 13, 2020 at 12:10 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It seems pretty clear from context that what you are expected to cease is violence. It doesn't seem to say 'kill them until they stop criticizing Muslim beliefs'.

You seem to be going with the least charitable interpretation of the verses possible. Granted, Allah via Gabriel via Muhammed should be able to be crystal clear; but since we're left trying to parse the thing, there are much more problematic suras than these.
Magic book says a bunch of horrid shit......particularly about people who don't share the faith.   It's all pretext for war.  If that's uncharitable..so be it.  The history of islams development doesn't exactly argue for a better interpretation, and it's not as if the warlords were just pulling stuff out of thin air.  

That's the point of these threads that Winter posts.  Each of them an attempt to grapple with an uncomfortable reality about his own religion...by dumping it all on sunni and shia hadiths.  

I suppose that we all have our own criteria for judging magic books - but it's this sort of nonsense that concerns me the most.  When they show a talent for turning vice into virtue, virtue to vice.   The magic book in question is particularly casual in that regard.  As exploration of other problematic suras would show.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#25
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
I don't need gods or archaic writings to know that murder is wrong.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#26
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 16, 2020 at 6:36 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I don't need gods or archaic writings to know that murder is wrong.

Others need a reminder.
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#27
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
Who, lol? The faithful, does the body of the global faithful need a reminder?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#28
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 17, 2020 at 6:19 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Who, lol?  The faithful, does the body of the global faithful need a reminder?

Like Serial Killers, terrorists, Muslims who are ready to kill for apostasy, American soldiers,...and the list goes on.
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#29
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 17, 2020 at 8:22 am)WinterHold Wrote:
(March 17, 2020 at 6:19 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Who, lol?  The faithful, does the body of the global faithful need a reminder?

Like Serial Killers, terrorists, Muslims who are ready to kill for apostasy, American soldiers,...and the list goes on.

These people all know murder is wrong, they simply don't care.  And it's wrong of you to add 'American soldiers' to your list.  The other two groups are defined by the unjustified taking of human life.  While US soldiers sometimes do that, it's hardly a defining characteristic.

In other words, ALL serial killers and ALL Muslims who kill apostates are guilty of murder.  Not every death compassed by American soldiers constitutes murder (and the overwhelming majority of US soldiers have never killed anyone for any reason).

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#30
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: the true face of murder
(March 17, 2020 at 8:33 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: In other words, ALL serial killers and ALL Muslims who kill apostates are guilty of murder.  Not every death compassed by American soldiers constitutes murder (and the overwhelming majority of US soldiers have never killed anyone for any reason).

Boru

Get ready for a rant on imperialism. Read
...and most probably zionism................no, definitely zionism!
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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