Here is why you should believe in God.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's pointless to respond to you point by point. In your god fevered imagination - atheists have simply never considered these things. In mere reality, we have.

If -you- were led to believe that presenting these things to atheists would challenge our status as non believers - you were lied to. If the person who told you that is someone you look up to and repsect...that's the person who lied to you.

Work that shit out for yourself.

Meanwhile, regardless of how effectively some asshole lied to you...you are clearly incapable of explaining why other people..other than yourself, should believe.

[R00tKiT]

In your god fevered imagination - atheists have simply never considered these things.  In mere reality, we have.

So what .. ?  
Did it ever come to your superior intellects than one can consider things very carefully.. and still get them wrong ?

If -you- were led to believe that presenting these things to atheists would challenge our status as non believers

Don't worry about me. Nobody led me to believe anything. All I believe is, good points are made and you couldn't address them, or made a mistake when attempting to do so, or considered them not good enough .. because reasons.

Work that shit out for yourself.

Meanwhile, regardless of how effectively some asshole lied to you...you are clearly incapable of explaining why other people..other than yourself, should believe.

Enough talking about myself. Where is the special pleading you were talking about ?

[Duty]

I didn't claim my list of features is exhaustive, this is off-topic, as I said. And you should try better than simply invoking the problem of evil, as *overwhelming evidence*. There is extensive theodicy literature addressing each of your concerns,.

It's not off topic, as you said God and then described something which does not necessitate nor even imply the existence of God as any religious tradition describes it.

My bold - Citation please? I consider myself to be at least relatively well read - I wonder how come I don't remember hearing an explanation for why God allows cot deaths, paedophilia etc etc etc...PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME/US!!!

Klorophyll? Cot deaths AKA sudden infant death syndrome? Are you there?

[R00tKiT]

It's not off topic, as you said God and then described something which does not necessitate nor even imply the existence of God as any religious tradition describes it.

My bold - Citation please? I consider myself to be at least relatively well read - I wonder how come I don't remember hearing an explanation for why God allows cot deaths, paedophilia etc etc etc...PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME/US!!!

Klorophyll? Cot deaths AKA sudden infant death syndrome? Are you there?

I already answered you here;

https://atheistforums.org/thread-60668-p...pid1965490

[The Grand Nudger]

So what .. ?  
Did it ever come to your superior intellects than one can consider things very carefully.. and still get them wrong ?

Our intellects aren't superior. We have the same intellect that you do.....but imagining that an atheist can get things wrong..which they can, immediately invokes god-botherers getting things wrong - which...they...can.

Even you believe this, about all the other god botherers.

My point, in mere reality, is that you've offered nothing that anyone here has never heard before, and nothing that strikes them as a good reason to believe.  I know...I know...you think that we're all crazy and/or stupid.... and you're the sane and/or smart one...but....

Don't worry about me. Nobody led me to believe anything. All I believe is, good points are made and you couldn't address them, or made a mistake when attempting to do so, or considered them not good enough .. because reasons.

Someone lead you to believe a bunch of hilariously untrue shit that you've already shared with us.  There's no clawing it back now.  Someone that you respect flat out lied to you.  What do you think about that? Meanwhile, regardless of how effectively some asshole lied to you...you are clearly incapable of explaining why other people..other than yourself, should believe.

Enough talking about myself. Where is the special pleading you were talking about ?

Already explained.  I would refer you to my previous posts.  Thing about special pleading..is that it isn;t a problem if the case is special, which is what you believe.

You don't actually believe that something can't come from nothing - you absolutely do believe that god can come from nothing.  This is special pleading, plain and simple...and if god is a special case then special pleading isn't a problem..but to be logically coherent - you would first need to acknowledge what you're doing.

You do believe that god is a special case.  True or false?  You believe that nothing else can come from nothing - but you also believe that god came from nothing.  


I can summarize the entirety of the above with " you're a fucking idiot, why are you such an idiot, who made you an idiot..or was being an idiot a personal choice?" Whatever dreams you had of joining this board and sharing enlightenment with we lowly kaffir...you were sorely mistaken. Ultimately, the truth of any of these propositions is irrelevant, because the misunderstanding that you operate on has no bearing on them. Asssume god is really real...and special. Okay. Still heard your reasons before. They're still shit.

Now what?

[R00tKiT]

My point, in mere reality, is that you've offered nothing that anyone here has never heard before, and nothing that strikes them as a good reason to believe. 

Nobody is going to offer you anything you somewhat didn't hear before. The thing is, we argue that you're looking at things from the wrong perspective. Recall that a couple of clues of smashed windows and broken handles point to a sophisticated burglar, if one just stops and thinks of this example hard enough - instead of asking for something else, like you do, the conclusion[a burglar exists] is a very sophisticated and ambitious one, but the few clues observed fully justify *believing* in it. The same thing applies to the whole universe, appearance of order does justify belief.

Back to descriptive laws, however you label them. They're still there, instead of no law at all. A lawless universe, that is, a universe where nothing follows any intelligible pattern, is clearly a universe worse than the one we have we have. If it is theoretically possible for a universe to be worse than ours, how come we have better one.. in the absence of a lawgiver.. ?
Now the batshit objection the unreasonably skeptical atheist gives.. laws don't require per se a lawgiver.. but this is a very poor one, an objection of the last resort.. smashed windows and broken handles don't imply a burlgar either.. per se, but not accepting the burglar hypothesis will look really bad for a competent, or just mentally sane, detective..

I know...I know...you think that we're all crazy and/or stupid.... and you're the sane  and/or smart one...but....

I actually don't think that. I don't remember someone asking me here what I think about them. All I think about them is that they are decent people _duh_ who were exposed to bad theology for too long.

You don't actually believe that something can't come from nothing - you absolutely do believe that god can come from nothing.  This is special pleading, plain and simple...and if god is a special case then special pleading isn't a problem..but to be logically coherent - you would first need to acknowledge what you're doing.

You do believe that god is a special case.  True or false?  You believe that nothing else can come from nothing - but you also believe that god came from nothing. 

God is not a special case, pal. Let's try again:

At any point in the past : the supposed god exists. The nothing state never happened. There was never any nothing. Therefore, God didn't come from nothing, he is the something that was always there. To say for something that it came from nothing is to say it popped into existence ex nihilo, after the nothing. That's clearly not god as he is defined.

Is that clear enough..?

Whatever dreams you had of joining this board and sharing enlightenment with we lowly kaffir...you were sorely mistaken.

The word kaffir' you mindlessly use here literally means someone who is convinced of something true and knowingly denies it. Clearly, the label kafir' as defined in Islamic jurisprudence doesn't apply to most atheists.

Apparently, I am not the only one being lied to.

[Nay_Sayer]

@Klorophyll


I already do. However, you picked the wrong god. There's always time for you to get on the winning team.

FSM exists. The nothing state never happened. There was never any nothing. Therefore, FSM didn't come from nothing, Xhe is the something that was always there.

Is that clear enough..?

RAmen

[The Grand Nudger]

I think that's a shame.  Even as the antitheist that I am I acknowledge a deep well of tolerance for theism-in-practice.

You're insulting me, and my intelligence.  You will either bring these good reasons or you will not.  You cannot complain when you fail to deliver the stated goods.  You made a commitment to them, and to their existence.

[R00tKiT]

You're insulting me,

....whatever you say....

you bigoted piece of shit, lol. 

that because you're a bigoted piece of shit.

Fucking liar.  Silly, stupid, predicatable liar.

you dumb son of a bitch

Frankly speaking, you're not morally qualified to speak about these big issues, nor judge any religion, or any religious person's intelligence. The replies I got so far are enough for me not to waste further time answering a dishonest, narcisstic fool who doesn't take the time to understand what "comes from nothing" means, then speaks confidently of his intelligence. 
I don't see how the content above is allowed without moderation. Too bad members like yourself clearly have some free ticket for badmouthing just because they're around for too long.

You will either bring these good reasons or you will not.

Try swallowing some honesty pills first. If you can't acknowledge true tautologies, nor admit you're wrong about something, anything, then I can't help you, nor can any good reason.

[Abaddon_ire]

You're insulting me,

....whatever you say....

you bigoted piece of shit, lol. 

that because you're a bigoted piece of shit.

Fucking liar.  Silly, stupid, predicatable liar.

you dumb son of a bitch

Frankly speaking, you're not morally qualified to speak about these big issues, nor judge any religion, or any religious person's intelligence. The replies I got so far are enough for me not to waste further time answering a dishonest, narcisstic fool who doesn't take the time to understand what "comes from nothing" means, then speaks confidently of his intelligence. 
I don't see how the content above is allowed without moderation. Too bad members like yourself clearly have some free ticket for badmouthing just because they're around for too long.

You will either bring these good reasons or you will not.

Try swallowing some honesty pills first. If you can't acknowledge true tautologies, nor admit you're wrong about something, anything, then I can't help you, nor can any good reason.

Said the poster claiming that something can come from nothing. 

Sorry. You do not get to play the dishonesty card when you are plainly hurling it into the discussion at your interlocutors.