Posts: 5097
Threads: 207
Joined: February 16, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 9:15 am
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2011 at 9:19 am by reverendjeremiah.)
(March 4, 2011 at 8:08 am)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: reverend Wrote:I tend to agree, but we are talking about a FICTIONAL entity arent we? So logic doesnt really count when it comes to fictional characters such as Superman and Jesus does it?
Of course it does because logic can be used in hypothetical scenarios.
No, I disagree. Fiction can allow ANYTHING to happen, even if it is internally contradictory. Let me give you an example:
Jesus is sitting around bored one day and thinks "hey, I can do anything!" So he decides to create an unmovable force in the form of a wall made entirely of bullshit. Jesus then starts to run toward the the wall, slowly building up his velocity until he hits "ludicrous speed". Jesus has now become an unstopable force to be reckoned with! Upon impact, we see bullshit fly everywhere, along with arms, legs, assholes and elbows. This event is what we now call "the big bang".
I appreciate your support of logic, and I too support it with enthusiasm. But dont let it take your humanity away. Fiction is the ONLY exception of the rule. Fiction has no boundaries, no rules, and drives the creativity of mankind as well as being birthed by the creativity of mankind. Fiction can inspire everything and nothing, laughter and sorrow, joy and anger all in a single sentence.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2011 at 9:32 am by fr0d0.)
(March 4, 2011 at 8:34 am)theVOID Wrote: So fr0d0, it's on you - You think your belief is justified, present your theory of justification... Christianity is my belief, 100%. Nothing hidden about it at all. Yet that isn't theory enough for you, you need me to explain the whole thing for you.
*PUSHES SEVERAL BIBLES TO EVERYONE INTERESTED*
(March 4, 2011 at 12:23 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Then you need to put up a case for this rather than assert it. We no nothing of atemporal existence, and if you are proposing that a god could exist in this manner then what is your reasoning? I would assert the contrary that an atemporal Entity (whatever that is becuase it cannot be conceived of), would exist in the absence of time, not somehow above and beyond time; thus be frozen, and I would probably be right, based on all we know about the universe. I've put up my explanation... it's that standard explanation found everywhere in Christianity. Nothing new.
You say it cannot be conceived... yet IT IS conceived and very well documented. Somehow you think you're justified in countering the overwhelming reasoning behind that with your home brewed crackpot of an idea that you expect us to take on board without one grain of reasoning to justify it. Only to plead - "no you tell me what is abundantly explained". The stubbornness is staggering.
(March 4, 2011 at 7:00 am)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: You said that Jesus the mortal man is not the same as Jesus the immortal God. *Walks away not pushing the roundabout Mike rides*
Posts: 4535
Threads: 175
Joined: August 10, 2009
Reputation:
43
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 9:42 am
(March 4, 2011 at 9:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Christianity is my belief, 100%. Nothing hidden about it at all. Yet that isn't theory enough for you, you need me to explain the whole thing for you.
I know you well enough by now to know that you fully understood my question and know full well that That was not an answer to it. But just in case you sincerely misunderstood:
We know you believe in Christianity.
We know you believe that you are justified in this belief.
We want to know WHY you believe that you are JUSTIFIED.
So, one more time:
What do you believe it takes for someone to be epistemically justified in having a belief?
.
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
132
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 12:21 pm
(March 4, 2011 at 9:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: *Walks away not pushing the roundabout Mike rides*
*notices fr0d0 ducking the fact that he is contradicting himself by suggesting that Jesus is both 100% mortal and 100% not mortal*
Posts: 765
Threads: 40
Joined: August 8, 2010
Reputation:
21
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2011 at 12:47 pm by Captain Scarlet.)
(March 4, 2011 at 9:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I've put up my explanation... it's that standard explanation found everywhere in Christianity. Nothing new.
You say it cannot be conceived... yet IT IS conceived and very well documented. Somehow you think you're justified in countering the overwhelming reasoning behind that with your home brewed crackpot of an idea that you expect us to take on board without one grain of reasoning to justify it. Only to plead - "no you tell me what is abundantly explained". The stubbornness is staggering.
You have given us no reasoning to suggest your beliefs and assertions are true. Beleiving in Christianity is not a reason to believe that a god can exist atemporally and/or that Jesus was fully man and a god.
God is concieved of, as is the FSM. But atemporal existence has not been. No-one has a notion of what that means, your very rough sketch of it is "you are not bound by time". You might as well say god exists is super-time and is always one step ahead or heavy-time which pushes our time down beneath it or lite-time which floats above our time; all utterly meaningless undefined and unsupported concepts. Atemporlity is not described, nor is it defended by any reasoning, nor is it justified by any of reality. So excuse my use of Anglo-saxon vernacular, but what the fuck is it?
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
132
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 1:05 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2011 at 1:05 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(March 4, 2011 at 9:15 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote: No, I disagree. Fiction can allow ANYTHING to happen, even if it is internally contradictory. Let me give you an example:
We're discussing hypothetical scenarios though. In other words whether a certain scenario could possibly be real. And my point is that it's impossible for Jesus to be mortal and immortal at the same time.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm
(March 4, 2011 at 12:21 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: *notices fr0d0 ducking the fact that he is contradicting himself by suggesting that Jesus is both 100% mortal and 100% not mortal* I'm sorry Mike I can't put it more clearly at the moment. Apart from hitting you around the head with a clue bat, I'm all out of ideas. If I think of any other explanation, I'll get back to you. 
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: You have given us no reasoning to suggest your beliefs and assertions are true. Because that was never my intention perhaps? Besides being your quest.
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Believing in Christianity is not a reason to believe that a God can exist atemporally and/or that Jesus was fully man and a God. Yes it is actually... moving on...
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: [God is concieved of...]But atemporal existence has not been. I think reality would disagree with you. But I must be hallucinating... Please click on this link and tell me if it brings back one and a quarter million results from the web for you: http://tinyurl.com/4f6jy25
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: No-one has a notion of what that means Funny those 1 1/4million links would likely disprove that statement
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
132
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2011 at 1:43 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I'm sorry Mike I can't put it more clearly at the moment. Apart from hitting you around the head with a clue bat, I'm all out of ideas. If I think of any other explanation, I'll get back to you.
What's so difficult to understand about the logical fact that Jesus can't be both mortal and immortal at the same time?
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Ok Mr Terrier "I wont let go of this tasty bone"
You have faith Mike, that the temporal and atemporal occupy the same physical space, and I admire your courage in stating it. You fail to grasp the notion that something can be more than one dimensional... That we can refer to each dimension with the same root name, but mean something entirely different. What can I do??
Posts: 765
Threads: 40
Joined: August 8, 2010
Reputation:
21
RE: A good reason not to believe in God
March 4, 2011 at 2:21 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2011 at 2:26 pm by Captain Scarlet.)
(March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: [quote='Captain Scarlet' pid='121435' dateline='1299257132']
You have given us no reasoning to suggest your beliefs and assertions are true. (March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Because that was never my intention perhaps? Besides being your quest. You post on threads on a forum which debate reasons for belief and non-belief and you have no intention of offering reasoning...?. Gosh I am sure you are a great guy, but I don't lie awake at night plotting quests to get you to offer some reasoning. Strawmen again Frodo. You made some assertions and contradictory statements and cannot back them up...it ain't my problem is it really...
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Believing in Christianity is not a reason to believe that a God can exist atemporally and/or that Jesus was fully man and a God. (March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes it is actually... moving on... Every single branch of Xtianity that there ever was, and is now believes that Jesus was fully man and fully a god. That is historically false, which means believeing in xtianity does not entail this at all...but who knows your branch could be the one true one ...right!...moving on indeed
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: [God is concieved of...]But atemporal existence has not been. (March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I think reality would disagree with you. But I must be hallucinating... Please click on this link and tell me if it brings back one and a quarter million results from the web for you: http://tinyurl.com/4f6jy25 Try googling "atemporal existence" (ie what I actually stated). 675k hits, mostly referring to "a temporal existence" because google thinks I've mistyped it, a few references to ear lobes, and a few referencing atemporal in relation to a gods existence; none of which define it but mention it. Reality isn't on your side here, but be my guest find one article describinbg what its like. Mind you, you can clearly describe it given its obvious clarity in your mind.....when its not hallucinating
(March 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: No-one has a notion of what that means (March 4, 2011 at 1:31 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Funny those 1 1/4million links would likely disprove that statement Hilarious! See above for the disproof of your disproof.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
|
