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Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
#41
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
If i was defending the church then i wouldn't have condemned the priests that were convicted for child abuse such as Gerald Risdale

No one has provided any foundation for their refusal to accept the ruling of the High Court except for a bitter hatred of the church

With anti-theist prejudice being exposed and lack of reasoning being offered there really is not much left but to reflect on the decision of the High Court

[Image: EVCKbGcUMAANw_6.jpg][Image: 240eebc474bf608eddb839a8780ce9f4?width=650][Image: EU9iczaUwAE2dtm.jpg:large]

Let's read some quotes from the High Court...


"The High Court found that the jury, acting rationally on the whole of the evidence, ought to have entertained a doubt as to the applicant's guilt with respect to each of the offences for which he was convicted, and ordered that the convictions be quashed and that verdicts of acquittal be entered in their place."

"The High Court considered that, while the Court of Appeal majority assessed the evidence of the opportunity witnesses as leaving open the possibility that the complainant's account was correct, their Honours' analysis failed to engage with the question of whether there remained a reasonable possibility that the offending had not taken place, such that there ought to have been a reasonable doubt as to the applicant's guilt."

"The Court held that, on the assumption that the jury had assessed the complainant's evidence as thoroughly credible and reliable, the evidence of the opportunity witnesses nonetheless required the jury, acting rationally, to have entertained a reasonable doubt as to the applicant's guilt in relation to the offences involved in both alleged incidents."


The following are statements made by a professional barrister of 35 years Michael McAuley


"With respect to each of the applicant's convictions, there was a significant possibility that an innocent person has been convicted because the evidence did not establish guilt to the requisite standard of proof"

“The fact of the matter is that all of us have got an interest in the courts operating fairly even with unpopular defenders, and indeed the real test of the justice system is whether unpopular defenders can get justice.”

“It was a very weak case and the Court of Appeal did not have proper regard to the Cardinal’s Counsel’s submissions,”

“The case raises many questions about the professionalism of the Victorian police and serious consideration should be given to establishing a government inquiry into their handling of the matter,”

“The High Court’s unanimous decision to acquit Cardinal Pell will help in remedying the harm his unjust conviction has caused to the national and international reputation of Australia’s justice system,”

“There is now an urgent need to establish inquiries into the Victorian police, the ABC and any other relevant organisation to assess whether they failed to act professionally in investigating and reporting on the allegations against Cardinal Pell.”

“It shouldn’t have been prosecuted. It should not have resulted in a guilty verdict and I think most lawyers thought once it got to the High Court this was the default setting.
I think the question is why such a case was prosecuted, and what damage it did. The Victorian police, who did everything they could during the investigative process to try and promote a conviction have huge questions to answer”


"It is the duty of the prosecution to prove the guilt of an accused, and to discharge the burden of proof with evidence. The trial must be conducted and the finders of fact, (the jury or the judge), must come to their verdict regardless of the identity of the accuser or accused and regardless of political or populist pressures or prejudices."

"It is fundamental to the application of justice that respect be paid to these principles by any judicial officer and by any finder of fact. The alternative is a complete corrosion of our system of justice, where any person may be imprisoned or lose their livelihood, on the uncorroborated, or factually improbable, word of another."

“The High Court decision is one which has underscored the most basic and fundamental thread that permeates the ‘web’ of the criminal law – that of the right of every person to a fair trial,”


So despite the prejudices of some hate filled individuals the High Court's decision stands as factually true
Cardinal George Pell is innocent
Reply
#42
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
Quote:If i was defending the church then i wouldn't have condemned the priests that were convicted for child abuse such as Gerald Risdale
Yes you would have .Because you can't defend them 

Quote:No one has provided any foundation for their refusal to accept the ruling of the High Court except for a bitter hatred of the church
We have provided plenty .The ruling is flawed  .None of it has anything to do with your delusions of "hatred " 


Quote:With anti-theist prejudice being exposed and lack of reasoning being offered there really is not much left but to reflect on the decision of the High Court
With honest conclusions being drawn and reason being displayed .You would agree with the ruling regardless .


Quote:Let's read some quotes from the High Court...
Some selected quotes from the sham trial (OJ)


Quote:The following are statements made by a professional barrister of 35 years Michael McAuley
Following statements by essentially Robert Shapiro 


Quote:So despite the prejudices of some hate filled individuals the High Court's decision stands as factually true
Cardinal George Pell is innocent
Despite the facts stated by the opposition Pell remains off by legal technicality (OJ) With no evidence of supposed prejudice or hate just an overactive persecution complex by theists and their delusional allies.

Now please continue screaming MEAN ATHEISTS BAD .
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
#43
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
SUNGULA Wrote:With honest conclusions being drawn and reason being displayed .You would agree with the ruling regardless

Well it is what it is, George Pell was acquitted, innocent

Would you say that every Christian clergy member is guilty of being involved in, covering up or supporting child abuse?
Reply
#44
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
(April 16, 2020 at 2:51 am)Agnostico Wrote:
SUNGULA Wrote:With honest conclusions being drawn and reason being displayed .You would agree with the ruling regardless

Well it is what it is, George Pell was acquitted, innocent

Would you say that every Christian clergy member is guilty of being involved in, covering up or supporting child abuse?

Yes, he is innocent.  'Innocent', however, is a legal determination.  It doesn't mean he didn't do it.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#45
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
(April 16, 2020 at 5:37 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yes, he is innocent.  'Innocent', however, is a legal determination.  It doesn't mean he didn't do it.

Boru

A defendant is innocent until proven guilty. The High Court ruled that he was not proven to be guilty.

The reasion i know a lot about this case and show interest in it isn't cos im trying to defend the church.
I've shown that by condemning the convicted perpetrators and acknowledging the pedophile scandal of Victoria

My interest comes from the fact that I live in this state and have seen and had to deal with these dirty cops and prosecutors before as well as many friends
I was falsely accused of something which was fabricated by someone in order to get me out of the picture. Cops instantly assume im guilty and laid charges before investigating
Their investigation into my whereabouts through phone records and other means contradicted their allegation yet they went ahead with nothing
All while defending a proper criminal who used them fuck me, the cunt did it fuckin well i'll give him that.

So basically here in Victoria if you don't have at least 15-20 grand for a lawyer ur going to prison. The result, a lot of innocent people up in jail that just couldn't afford a lawyer
And to make it worse the lawyers, at least mine, milk u for as much as they can without caring about weather u win or loose

You pay the lawyer, he pays the prosecutor and/or the judge, you walk. Anyway enough about my beef with Victoria police, point is their corrupt as fuck...

U think George Pell is guilty, right. Why?
Are there any case details that compels you or do u think that he deserves to be punished for continuing to serve as a bishop of a church that has had many pedophiles?
Reply
#46
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
(April 16, 2020 at 7:56 am)Agnostico Wrote:
(April 16, 2020 at 5:37 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yes, he is innocent.  'Innocent', however, is a legal determination.  It doesn't mean he didn't do it.

Boru

A defendant is innocent until proven guilty. The High Court ruled that he wasn't proven to be guilty.

Do u think he did do it. Why?

As I said earlier, innocence and guilt are legal determinations, not statements of actuality. Being found innocent doesn’t mean you didn’t commit the act of which you’ve been accused, and being found guilty doesn’t mean you committed the act. What they mean is that judges and juries have evaluated the evidence and determined whether or not it is 
sufficient to convict you. 

Based on the track record of the Church on this matter, I’m inclined to believe that Pell did what he is accused of. 

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#47
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
At work.

"Ah, that Gomez Adams. He's quite the lady killer."

"Twice aquitted!"


It's a worry when life begins to imitate art.
Reply
#48
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
(April 16, 2020 at 2:51 am)Agnostico Wrote:
SUNGULA Wrote:With honest conclusions being drawn and reason being displayed .You would agree with the ruling regardless

Well it is what it is, George Pell was acquitted, innocent

Would you say that every Christian clergy member is guilty of being involved in, covering up or supporting child abuse?
Yup on a legal technicality he isn't innocent

Christian clergy no .Not even Catholic clergy. But i refuse to accept a man in Pell's position knew nothing about what was going on or even  participated himself.
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
#49
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:As I said earlier, innocence and guilt are legal determinations, not statements of actuality. Being found innocent doesn’t mean you didn’t commit the act of which you’ve been accused, and being found guilty doesn’t mean you committed the act. What they mean is that judges and juries have evaluated the evidence and determined whether or not it is sufficient to convict you.

Then someone that is in jail for killing 30 people is not guilty of killing those people. Maybe to you but not according to the law

The definition of conviction is "a formal declaration by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law that someone is guilty of a criminal offence."

I don't know what u mean by "statement of actuality" but when your convicted it means you have been judged to be guilty of a crime by the state
And as i said b4 a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. Im not sure what kind of "statement of actuality" ur looking for but the courts ruling is one of authority which presides over everything

But weather u want to call it convicted, guilty, innocent or whatever is up to u, doesn't really matter.

BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:Based on the track record of the Church on this matter, I’m inclined to believe that Pell did what he is accused of.

You know the courts can't take this approach right as it violates basic principles of our justice system. 
But it's fair enough, at least ur saying this not like others that deny this and then fail to give any reason for their opinion.

The error of that position is this, assuming a guilty defendant instead of an innocent one, as per norm, opens the door to false allegations
It basically says there are no false accusations. But like i said at least ur honest about were ur coming from


In general a false accusation is worse than the crime. A case that sees a not guilty verdict should then be flipped around to put the integrity of the accuser.
If an accuser is found to be guilty of giving false testimony (perjury) then the sentence should equal the allegation

For example u get accused of raping a girl 20 years ago. Possible sentence is 15 on the bottom, life on the top. 
Ur found not guilty while another trial finds her guilty of perjury. She then should be sentenced to 15 to life as well

Whats worse the crime or the false accusation?
A crime can last 5 seconds even less if you shoot someone, a rush of blood, a bad reaction.
Perjury however requires months and years of careful planning and fronting and acting and lying and a total disregard for anyone else, all to destroy a persons life. 
Its a sinister premeditation that only a sick person could be able to perform
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#50
RE: Cardinal George Pell has conviction overturned
Nope he's simply not guilty that's not innocent and again legal technicality (OJ)

Quote:In short, "not guiltyis not the same as "innocent." Innocent means that a person did not commit the crime. Not guilty means that the prosecution could not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that a person committed the crime.
And yes it does matter because it means he still could have done it 


Second people lie in court all the time it doesn't require an evil genius and reckless it takes to kill someone in general makes you a danger to society  . And your system would make accuser scared to accuse because the system could make mistake and lock an accuser up for 15 years allowing rapists even more cover then they already get  .And no the crime is worst because some was actually victimized sexually the second worst crime a person can commit that is rarely just a spur of the moment and if it is it shows a dangerous lack of judgement .


And lastly you asked him for a personal reason not a legal one
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply



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