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RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
March 31, 2011 at 1:00 pm (This post was last modified: March 31, 2011 at 1:02 pm by Skipper.)
(March 31, 2011 at 12:52 pm)tackattack Wrote: But do you advocate an industry that caters to them, regardless of their historical inception?It was a simple yes or no.
If the demand is there. And nobody is actually being exploited. And it is on done via the regualted and legal porn industry, then Yes. Easily.
Quote:Is providing a non-physical and non-prosecutable outlet (in the legal industry) for them worth fortifying the fantasies of rapists, pedophiles and abusers that eventually cross that line anyways? Aren't they just able to hide easier because of it?
How do you know people who watch these things go on to commit the crimes you are saying? Does having a beer make you alcoholic? Smoking a joint make you a smack head? No.
You're taking examples to the extremes to try and justify your opinion.
Quote:Is providing a non-physical and non-prosecutable outlet (in the legal industry)worth the encouragement of illegal enterprises to capitalize on their bolstering of demand? How many children exploited/raped/abused is worth 100 pedophiles getting their rocks off online instead of in person for 6 months?
Who is talking about raping/exploiting and abusing children? I thought the discussion here was about the porn industry producing legal movies using legal actors who "act" some perhaps borderline material. If the legal alternative wasn't there for people to get their fix of whatever fantasy it is...perhaps more would turn to illegal and otherwise abusive methods of getting their fix.
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
March 31, 2011 at 5:33 pm (This post was last modified: March 31, 2011 at 6:59 pm by Violet.)
(March 31, 2011 at 5:29 am)tackattack Wrote: Ok, let me try this again. You don't give a convicted killer or a psychopath a gun do you? No there are protections in place, it still happens and is a great societal tragedy. There are no such restrictions on porn. The dumbest teenager can still click yes that they are over 18 and access pornography. It's in ads and popups all over the web. I'd have way less of a problem with pornography if they had some standards and put some safeguards in place. Examples for instance:
1- abolish all free porn or at least make it illegal to transmit. Then it would actually be a lot harder for minors to have acces to porn. It would also make illegal porn easier to track and prosecute. I know it's impractical, but I think it would have a positive impact.
And why stop "minors" from accessing porn in the first place. Wasn't the statistic that most of us have had sex by 14?
I think you would see many people engaging in illegal activities, and the porn industry hardly impacted at all. Shall we stop selling guns because sometimes they wind up in the hands of villains (who are going to get them anyway)?
Quote:2- Convicted child molestors/ rapists get therapy, their IP tracked and regular computer scans (or maybe some accountability software).
Rapists are average people that lost the battle between what is 'right' and what they want. Just as most thievery is spontaneous, I would suggest most rape is so. Plenty of the average people torture themselves mentally over having done such a thing afterward. The ones that are a threat worthy of watching are the repeat offenders, who you might as well shoot.
Quote:3- Convicted Child molesters/ rapists get blacklisted (kind of like Vegas casinos) by the reputable network of porn sites.
Ummm... why? Should be no child porn at those "reputable" sites. Those who are attracted to children should probably stick with anime/hentai/whatever-you-want-to-call-it.
Quote:4- Issue some sort of artistic liscense to producers (just a written contract to not intentionally produce something illegal)
???? Didn't you sign this 'do nothing illegal' contract when you became a united states citizen? What more do you need than to note what is illegal?
Quote:I do think that pedophiles should be consigned to sexual actions. I think it's ludicrous to exploit and molest children so that sick individuals can get their rock off.
It is infact illegal, so what are you on about? Also, they are going to get their "rock off" whether they have images to do it or not.
Quote:If they can't control their urges and get caught, they get real help and a target on their back or get dead. I don't want to eliminate a sickos legal outlet for release. That's not what I'm saying at all. However it's feeding their fantasies and building their urges more often then releasing them from the cycle.They shouldn't have to supress those urges (or allowed to act on them of course), they should be able to get help for them, which they won't do if they can reenforce those fantasies in privacy.
So because some people eat poor food... they should eat nothing at all. Brilliant. And my stance is that some 'children' are attractive, and plenty of 'minors' the same. Going to hang me because I have come to terms with myself and found that to be something less than your ideal human being? Be honest tacky: what's the difference in form between a 17 year old and an 18 year old?
Take that argument a step further... is the difference really so significant between a 14 year old and an 18 year old? I know a girl that's looked right about the same since she was 12, and she's 18 now and the only noticeable change to her appearance is she wears more makeup now and is about 3-4 inches taller, her bust marginally larger, and her right arm has been broken an additional time or three.
Now, when we start talking about people that haven't even entered puberty and people are attracted to them: they've still got two arms, two legs, a head, probably hair on that head, and perhaps more similarities. Does it really disturb you that some people find such attractive? Perhaps you (like me) hate innocence in sexual material... but I don't despise others for appreciating such/being attracted to it. I hate chocolate and rarely eat it but don't hate chocolate lovers.
Quote:If we can't trust the porn industry to police itself and no one else is policing it, it's just a breeding ground for illegal activity. I have nothing against a normal adult making, selling, buying, watching or enjoying 2 other consenting adults (which is another conversation entirely) sex acts. What I have a problem with is rampant greed, demand and lack of concern for societal morality (such as child abuse, rape, monogamy, physical abuse, drug abuse) being the only controls on an industry that closely ties in with the basest human urges.
So... you're against capitalism, especially unrestrained. So am I. But your societal morality doesn't concern me near so much. Especially monogamy, why is that even in this list?
(March 31, 2011 at 7:18 am)tackattack Wrote: No there is no direct causal link I can think of to go from happy legal porn viewer, to sick pedophile. I'm not equating the two, persay. When I see categories in legal porn like rape (even though the legal stuff is all fake), hitting women, dressing up women to seem of illegal age, cheating on your spouse, old on young, abuse of authority (schoolgirls, fucking the babysitter, daddy's girl etc.) they have nothing to do with artistic enterprise and frankly they disgust me.
Thank you for denying all of us who want to easily insert ourselves into sex where we are being dominated/dominating of our ability to do so out of your disgust for them. Porn isn't all about art... just as fast food is not all about fine cuisine. Stick to 'erotica' or whatever you call it if what you are looking for is sexual art.
Quote:They're fundamentally about objectifying and devaluing another person and encourage people to fantacise about breaking the law. A delicate mental dominate/ submission roleplaying is one thing, it's portrayed as concensual. Creating a looks like a snuff, pedophile or rape film, is not something that I can support from an industry, however legal it may be.
It's about attaching a value to what is otherwise a bag of meat: attractiveness. These person-less bodies have zero value to you outside of what you give them. Therefore you cannot be devaluing them when you are increasing how valuable they are.
And objectification isn't bad. Why would it be? I objectify every thing I see. And people are things too. What is to be gained by not noting a thing for what it is? 0.o
Quote:For instance, if McDonalds started making whale burgers and promoted them as "get them before they're extinct" I think a lot of people would have issues with it. That would bring that whole chain's percieved social bias down, it's the same opinion I have for the porn industry.
Except that whale burgers are really disgusting and hard to obtain, and that goes against McDonald's MO: quick satisfaction for a quick buck. Cow is quick, easy to come by, easy to raise en masse. More likely is for a fancy restaurant to advertise whale before it goes extinct. And I for one do not have any problem with it. What the fuck are whales doing for us anyway?
Quote:There is a definite line betwen pedophelia and consensual sex, but the industry intentionally tries to blur the line, which is a practice I can't support, because I feel it reenforces real pedophile/abuse fantasies only increasing the drive and urges for those things. I would just prefer we try and out the "closet" pedophiles instead of catering to their fantasies.
Please stop equating contributory factors with prime factors. Prime factor is that people don't have enough control over their desires. Making them even more ignorant of their lack of control is not going to improve their control.
Quote:As far as my blood lust, idk, I'm trying to be more of an asshole Christian, so I'm tring new things and commenting on things I usually would have no opinion on at all, like porn and politics.Oh and I hope I conveyed to try and help them fBEFORE killing them. But frankly if you're going to feed energy to a time bomb, not be able to diffuse it and then expect it not to go off, I'd at least like to see it prevented from hurting anyone (locked up for life).
Tacky has bloodlust? 0.o I don't think so. Acceptance and encouragement of harsh solutions does not mean one loves everything about the harsh solutions.
(March 31, 2011 at 12:55 pm)Chuck Wrote:
(March 31, 2011 at 12:23 pm)tackattack Wrote: R you advocating an industry that encourages these unhealthy fantasies and urges?
You are the christian, not us.
This matters... how??? 0.o
I'm plenty christian. I keep Christmas in my heart all year round ^_^ Though I admit that it is because of Charles Dickens and other such people's classic, not any holy text
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
March 31, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Quote:And why stop "minors" from accessing porn in the first place. Wasn't the statistic that most of us have had sex by 14?
I had it at 5.
Lots of fun it was.
Quote:I'd have way less of a problem with pornography if they had some standards and put some safeguards in place.
They do in many places. Of course a smart kid might find a way through. I did.
Quote:abolish all free porn or at least make it illegal to transmit. Then it would actually be a lot harder for minors to have acces to porn.
I personally don't think internet porn has any real negative effect on a child. I believe rapists and child molesters become so naturally. I was exposed to an awful lot of porn and even some sex as a child with full grown women. No negative effects. I have no interest to rape or molest children. I couldn't bring myself to kiss Katie, who kept asking me to kiss her. I was too busy making sure she was comfortable with it, eventually she did it for me by jumping on me.
I think rapists and such become so because of who they are and not by what they see or have experienced.
Quote:I do think that pedophiles should be consigned to sexual actions. I think it's ludicrous to exploit and molest children so that sick individuals can get their rock off.
It is already illegal. Or is it legal where you are?
Quote:However it's feeding their fantasies and building their urges more often then releasing them from the cycle.
Internet porn has many times giving me urges but has never driven me to rape or molest. Rape and molestation was around long before the internet. I still say rapists become so because of who they are. Some men have no problem grabbing a women and harming her, some other men like myself could never dream of it. The guilt I'd suffer would hurt me like hell, and for many years. It's down to the person that you are. Can you physicly force sex on someone or can you not?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 9:54 am
@Chuck
(March 31, 2011 at 12:55 pm)Chuck Wrote:
(March 31, 2011 at 12:23 pm)tackattack Wrote: R you advocating an industry that encourages these unhealthy fantasies and urges?
You are the christian, not us.
And your baited point? Answer the question, contribute to the conversations or stop flaming actual discussion participants. I understand your need to poke and prod the vocal Christian pinata hanging in front of you, you've probably had years of emotional abuse by theists. Don't be surprised if when you hit that pinata I say oww because I'm a person just like you. I am however working on being a better ass. :wink: This has nothing to do my theological standing or your atheism. If that eye for an eye mentality works for you, good luck with that, but keep the discussion forums for discussions.
(March 31, 2011 at 1:00 pm)Skipper Wrote:
(March 31, 2011 at 12:52 pm)tackattack Wrote: But do you advocate an industry that caters to them, regardless of their historical inception?It was a simple yes or no.
If the demand is there. And nobody is actually being exploited. And it is on done via the regualted and legal porn industry, then Yes. Easily.
Quote:Is providing a non-physical and non-prosecutable outlet (in the legal industry) for them worth fortifying the fantasies of rapists, pedophiles and abusers that eventually cross that line anyways? Aren't they just able to hide easier because of it?
How do you know people who watch these things go on to commit the crimes you are saying? Does having a beer make you alcoholic? Smoking a joint make you a smack head? No.
You're taking examples to the extremes to try and justify your opinion.
Quote:Is providing a non-physical and non-prosecutable outlet (in the legal industry)worth the encouragement of illegal enterprises to capitalize on their bolstering of demand? How many children exploited/raped/abused is worth 100 pedophiles getting their rocks off online instead of in person for 6 months?
Who is talking about raping/exploiting and abusing children? I thought the discussion here was about the porn industry producing legal movies using legal actors who "act" some perhaps borderline material. If the legal alternative wasn't there for people to get their fix of whatever fantasy it is...perhaps more would turn to illegal and otherwise abusive methods of getting their fix.
1-no having a beer doesn't make you an alcoholic. However having as much free beer as you want sitting inside you home and enjoying it regularly over extensive periods of time would most certainly exponentially increase the likelihood.
2-I am talking about feeding the demand of faked illegal activities by legal means leading to an increase in demand. Demand doesn't care about legality. Thus a perpetuation of fake illegal acts leads to increased illegal acts.
3-I'm also saying that if the legal porn industry distanced itself from fortifying these illegal fantasies it would benefit society.
(March 31, 2011 at 5:33 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:
(March 31, 2011 at 5:29 am)tackattack Wrote: Ok, let me try this again. You don't give a convicted killer or a psychopath a gun do you? No there are protections in place, it still happens and is a great societal tragedy. There are no such restrictions on porn. The dumbest teenager can still click yes that they are over 18 and access pornography. It's in ads and popups all over the web. I'd have way less of a problem with pornography if they had some standards and put some safeguards in place. Examples for instance:
1- abolish all free porn or at least make it illegal to transmit. Then it would actually be a lot harder for minors to have acces to porn. It would also make illegal porn easier to track and prosecute. I know it's impractical, but I think it would have a positive impact.
And why stop "minors" from accessing porn in the first place. Wasn't the statistic that most of us have had sex by 14?
I think you would see many people engaging in illegal activities, and the porn industry hardly impacted at all. Shall we stop selling guns because sometimes they wind up in the hands of villains (who are going to get them anyway)?
Quote:2- Convicted child molestors/ rapists get therapy, their IP tracked and regular computer scans (or maybe some accountability software).
Rapists are average people that lost the battle between what is 'right' and what they want. Just as most thievery is spontaneous, I would suggest most rape is so. Plenty of the average people torture themselves mentally over having done such a thing afterward. The ones that are a threat worthy of watching are the repeat offenders, who you might as well shoot.
Quote:3- Convicted Child molesters/ rapists get blacklisted (kind of like Vegas casinos) by the reputable network of porn sites.
Ummm... why? Should be no child porn at those "reputable" sites. Those who are attracted to children should probably stick with anime/hentai/whatever-you-want-to-call-it.
Quote:4- Issue some sort of artistic liscense to producers (just a written contract to not intentionally produce something illegal)
???? Didn't you sign this 'do nothing illegal' contract when you became a united states citizen? What more do you need than to note what is illegal?
Quote:I do think that pedophiles should be consigned to sexual actions. I think it's ludicrous to exploit and molest children so that sick individuals can get their rock off.
It is infact illegal, so what are you on about? Also, they are going to get their "rock off" whether they have images to do it or not.
Quote:If they can't control their urges and get caught, they get real help and a target on their back or get dead. I don't want to eliminate a sickos legal outlet for release. That's not what I'm saying at all. However it's feeding their fantasies and building their urges more often then releasing them from the cycle.They shouldn't have to supress those urges (or allowed to act on them of course), they should be able to get help for them, which they won't do if they can reenforce those fantasies in privacy.
So because some people eat poor food... they should eat nothing at all. Brilliant. And my stance is that some 'children' are attractive, and plenty of 'minors' the same. Going to hang me because I have come to terms with myself and found that to be something less than your ideal human being? Be honest tacky: what's the difference in form between a 17 year old and an 18 year old?
Take that argument a step further... is the difference really so significant between a 14 year old and an 18 year old? I know a girl that's looked right about the same since she was 12, and she's 18 now and the only noticeable change to her appearance is she wears more makeup now and is about 3-4 inches taller, her bust marginally larger, and her right arm has been broken an additional time or three.
Now, when we start talking about people that haven't even entered puberty and people are attracted to them: they've still got two arms, two legs, a head, probably hair on that head, and perhaps more similarities. Does it really disturb you that some people find such attractive? Perhaps you (like me) hate innocence in sexual material... but I don't despise others for appreciating such/being attracted to it. I hate chocolate and rarely eat it but don't hate chocolate lovers.
Quote:If we can't trust the porn industry to police itself and no one else is policing it, it's just a breeding ground for illegal activity. I have nothing against a normal adult making, selling, buying, watching or enjoying 2 other consenting adults (which is another conversation entirely) sex acts. What I have a problem with is rampant greed, demand and lack of concern for societal morality (such as child abuse, rape, monogamy, physical abuse, drug abuse) being the only controls on an industry that closely ties in with the basest human urges.
So... you're against capitalism, especially unrestrained. So am I. But your societal morality doesn't concern me near so much. Especially monogamy, why is that even in this list?
(March 31, 2011 at 7:18 am)tackattack Wrote: No there is no direct causal link I can think of to go from happy legal porn viewer, to sick pedophile. I'm not equating the two, persay. When I see categories in legal porn like rape (even though the legal stuff is all fake), hitting women, dressing up women to seem of illegal age, cheating on your spouse, old on young, abuse of authority (schoolgirls, fucking the babysitter, daddy's girl etc.) they have nothing to do with artistic enterprise and frankly they disgust me.
Thank you for denying all of us who want to easily insert ourselves into sex where we are being dominated/dominating of our ability to do so out of your disgust for them. Porn isn't all about art... just as fast food is not all about fine cuisine. Stick to 'erotica' or whatever you call it if what you are looking for is sexual art.
Quote:They're fundamentally about objectifying and devaluing another person and encourage people to fantacise about breaking the law. A delicate mental dominate/ submission roleplaying is one thing, it's portrayed as concensual. Creating a looks like a snuff, pedophile or rape film, is not something that I can support from an industry, however legal it may be.
It's about attaching a value to what is otherwise a bag of meat: attractiveness. These person-less bodies have zero value to you outside of what you give them. Therefore you cannot be devaluing them when you are increasing how valuable they are.
And objectification isn't bad. Why would it be? I objectify every thing I see. And people are things too. What is to be gained by not noting a thing for what it is? 0.o
Quote:For instance, if McDonalds started making whale burgers and promoted them as "get them before they're extinct" I think a lot of people would have issues with it. That would bring that whole chain's percieved social bias down, it's the same opinion I have for the porn industry.
Except that whale burgers are really disgusting and hard to obtain, and that goes against McDonald's MO: quick satisfaction for a quick buck. Cow is quick, easy to come by, easy to raise en masse. More likely is for a fancy restaurant to advertise whale before it goes extinct. And I for one do not have any problem with it. What the fuck are whales doing for us anyway?
Quote:There is a definite line betwen pedophelia and consensual sex, but the industry intentionally tries to blur the line, which is a practice I can't support, because I feel it reenforces real pedophile/abuse fantasies only increasing the drive and urges for those things. I would just prefer we try and out the "closet" pedophiles instead of catering to their fantasies.
Please stop equating contributory factors with prime factors. Prime factor is that people don't have enough control over their desires. Making them even more ignorant of their lack of control is not going to improve their control.
Quote:As far as my blood lust, idk, I'm trying to be more of an asshole Christian, so I'm tring new things and commenting on things I usually would have no opinion on at all, like porn and politics.Oh and I hope I conveyed to try and help them fBEFORE killing them. But frankly if you're going to feed energy to a time bomb, not be able to diffuse it and then expect it not to go off, I'd at least like to see it prevented from hurting anyone (locked up for life).
Tacky has bloodlust? 0.o I don't think so. Acceptance and encouragement of harsh solutions does not mean one loves everything about the harsh solutions.
4-Why stop minors from accessing porn? Because it's illegal. There is a legal age and classification of a minor for a reason. It variable based on localized societies, but at least it’s established. Once again I have little problem with the legal porn industry. I think it’s doing itself, and society, a disservice by catering to illegal desires and urges.
5-Put simply I feel fantasizing about illegal activities increases the compulsion to take illegal actions. Not to say that some people can’t enjoy rape/abuse/snuff/child porn (fake or otherwise) and not act on those urges, but some do. That to me is abhorrent enough to do away with it entirely. It is illegal for those types of porn, but the legal enterprise , IMO is trying to end run around the legality for greed alone. I don’t support an industry that chases greed and encourages illegal activity by promotion without care for societal ramifications.
6-Honestly Sae there’s little difference between the form of a 17-18. Age of consent isn’t even established in all communities. Some are at the onset of having your period, some are 14-15. There are Romeo and Juliet laws for 2 consenting minor to have sex. I have no problems with a 13 and 15year old couple having sex (in a social sense, I do personally with my own son and daughter) … what I have a problem with is an adult watching it/filming it/selling it/forcing it/exploiting it.
7-Is the problem with the visual aesthetic of the form or something else? Could your 13yr old friend be built like an 18 yr old? Yes. I have a god-sister that looked 18 when she was 14 (DD, curvy and even intellectually mature for her age). But despite her intellect and rational ability to understand sex and its ramifications, the thought of someone taking advantage of her innocence (lack of experience and emotional vulnerability) sends me into a rage. Did I find her attractive... looking back I found her physically attractive like you would your sister, but not sexually attractive, even though the standards are practically the same. I’m not exactly sure the difference exactly, which is why I’m probably having such a time conveying my point.
8-I have no problem with sex education in schools and home, but I don’t think porn is a good teacher. It objectifies and depersonalizes healthy relationships (instead of monogamy). Noting a thing for what it is, is fine. Devaluing relationships because you see your partner as nothing but a way to get off isn’t.
9-I’m not saying we should ban porn, even if that would work. Legal porn is fine; I like chocolate you don’t, to each their own. I’m saying I’d like the porn industry to take some accountability for its affect on society and stop trying to cater to illegal demands blurring the lines of legality and encouraging/ promoting fantasies of rape, abuse and exploitation.
(March 31, 2011 at 6:29 pm)Ace Otana Wrote:
Quote:And why stop "minors" from accessing porn in the first place. Wasn't the statistic that most of us have had sex by 14?
I had it at 5.
Lots of fun it was.
Quote:I'd have way less of a problem with pornography if they had some standards and put some safeguards in place.
They do in many places. Of course a smart kid might find a way through. I did.
Quote:abolish all free porn or at least make it illegal to transmit. Then it would actually be a lot harder for minors to have acces to porn.
I personally don't think internet porn has any real negative effect on a child. I believe rapists and child molesters become so naturally. I was exposed to an awful lot of porn and even some sex as a child with full grown women. No negative effects. I have no interest to rape or molest children. I couldn't bring myself to kiss Katie, who kept asking me to kiss her. I was too busy making sure she was comfortable with it, eventually she did it for me by jumping on me.
I think rapists and such become so because of who they are and not by what they see or have experienced.
Quote:I do think that pedophiles should be consigned to sexual actions. I think it's ludicrous to exploit and molest children so that sick individuals can get their rock off.
It is already illegal. Or is it legal where you are?
Quote:However it's feeding their fantasies and building their urges more often then releasing them from the cycle.
Internet porn has many times giving me urges but has never driven me to rape or molest. Rape and molestation was around long before the internet. I still say rapists become so because of who they are. Some men have no problem grabbing a women and harming her, some other men like myself could never dream of it. The guilt I'd suffer would hurt me like hell, and for many years. It's down to the person that you are. Can you physicly force sex on someone or can you not?
Good for you, I agree that some people are predisposed to not be able to control those urges. Super underdeveloped superego gives no counterpoint to the Id’s urges and desires. Some ego’s are skewed though by constant fortification of what is and isn’t permissible. If the urge in the Id is continuously fortified by constantly feeding that urge, it can overwhelm the ego. Most intelligent people have a much large ego than id. But let’s face it the world is full of stupid people who can’t control themselves half of the time. Feeding those id urges with illegal fantasies, IMO, is like feeding a cat live mice; it’s natural, but when the cat acts more like a wild cat and craves live mice to feed.. is it really domesticated anymore?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Tack..one of the hardest things for me to learn...and to accept....after I left Christianity was that people are individuals who have different ideas about life than you do. Disagreeing with someones choices does not make that person evil, or immoral. I realized that being a Christian made me authoritative...I knew what was right for people to live their lives by and anyone who opposed it were immoral, stupid, wrong, etc...besides, I had god on my side. I "felt" Jesus in my heart. I now realize that was a bad moment in my life that I am glad is finally over. I still cringe looking back at those days and how I was deluding myself. I still cringe thinking of the stupid shit I said back then.
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Tacky Wrote:4-Why stop minors from accessing porn? Because it's illegal. There is a legal age and classification of a minor for a reason. It variable based on localized societies, but at least it’s established. Once again I have little problem with the legal porn industry. I think it’s doing itself, and society, a disservice by catering to illegal desires and urges.
I would suggest you not presume law to be either correct, rational, or effective. The 'reason' there is a legal age and classification of 'minor' is to serve an already existing system. Change the system and there no longer is use in the same capacity (ie: class of 2010 nonsense).
Established is also nonsynonomous with correct, intelligent, rational, anything really beyond that it goes as generally accepted. It was once established that taking a bath reduced your chances of survival.
If it *is* catering to illegal things (ie: child porn???), then there is either a problem with those that are breaking the laws or those who are making them... possibly both.
Quote:5-Put simply I feel fantasizing about illegal activities increases the compulsion to take illegal actions. Not to say that some people can’t enjoy rape/abuse/snuff/child porn (fake or otherwise) and not act on those urges, but some do. That to me is abhorrent enough to do away with it entirely. It is illegal for those types of porn, but the legal enterprise , IMO is trying to end run around the legality for greed alone. I don’t support an industry that chases greed and encourages illegal activity by promotion without care for societal ramifications.
I don't disagree. Why does nobody rebel in Russia? It's because nobody thinks a rebellion could succeed. Holding a fantasy of doing so is scarcely likely to morph into a reality of you trying to do so (indeed, tis only a coincidence that a rebellion also occurred).
Because some people do bad things with their guns, you would deny me mine?
Having a gun is not abhorrent, though I am more of a knife girl myself. Less chance of me failing to use it properly.
Please stop describing the evils of capitalism as reason to delegalize something. I agree that capitalism is evil. I don't agree that things should be banned because people take advantage of them. Ban what is broken: porn is not broken.
If you do not support an industry that "chases greed and encourages illegal activity by promotion without care for societal ramifications." then you are denying every industry. The 'bottom line' is all that those running these industries are worried about, and people partake in them because of the same bottom line. Does this honestly surprise you?
Tacky Wrote:6-Honestly Sae there’s little difference between the form of a 17-18. Age of consent isn’t even established in all communities. Some are at the onset of having your period, some are 14-15. There are Romeo and Juliet laws for 2 consenting minor to have sex. I have no problems with a 13 and 15year old couple having sex (in a social sense, I do personally with my own son and daughter) … what I have a problem with is an adult watching it/filming it/selling it/forcing it/exploiting it.
Exploitation has such a negative connotation. I don't think it so negative to 'exploit' what you can. I think many who complain of it are QQers that blow things out of proportion. /enddigress
I'm glad you don't think the problem is where minor's and sec are concerned. I don't mind if people I invite to watch me have sex/video it/ sell it. I do mind those who force it, but that goes without saying i should think. Depends on how you mean 'exploiting'... if it's selling it in more places than I originally thought they would: whatever, good for them, enjoy. If it is bug my room so they can have additional things which i did not agree to: I will kill them.
Quote:7-Is the problem with the visual aesthetic of the form or something else? Could your 13yr old friend be built like an 18 yr old? Yes. I have a god-sister that looked 18 when she was 14 (DD, curvy and even intellectually mature for her age). But despite her intellect and rational ability to understand sex and its ramifications, the thought of someone taking advantage of her innocence (lack of experience and emotional vulnerability) sends me into a rage. Did I find her attractive... looking back I found her physically attractive like you would your sister, but not sexually attractive, even though the standards are practically the same. I’m not exactly sure the difference exactly, which is why I’m probably having such a time conveying my point.
Yes... i'm lost 0.o I hate innocence in sex/relationships. I was never terribly innocent... personalities before this one were all much more innocent than this. And I become less innocent as things continue to occur. I imagine I'll be a bitter old woman one day. Hope I'm dead by then
I do not understand the 'like you would your sister' followed by 'not sexually attractive' suggestion :S I have two sisters... one who is probably 15-16 years my senior, and the other who is 1.5 years my junior. The elder sister is moderately sexually attractive, the former is not remotely sexually attractive. I don't understand your point on the grounds that one of my sisters is sexually attractive and one of my nieces the same. I am also attracted to all of my elder brothers to an extent. However, I would never have sex with any of these people... as they would not want it from me and it would unnecessarily complicate our relationships on their end, a thing which I try to avoid when possible.
Quote:8-I have no problem with sex education in schools and home, but I don’t think porn is a good teacher. It objectifies and depersonalizes healthy relationships (instead of monogamy). Noting a thing for what it is, is fine. Devaluing relationships because you see your partner as nothing but a way to get off isn’t.
Porn is a better teacher than the sex education I was given throughout school, which was about like 1 day of it every 2 years or so. If it taught reasonable ways in which to have sex, I would agree with its institution... but I learned nothing from the 'eduction' of it in school. I had the internet, I learned these things already. I recall asking my mother if I could skip the day the first time, not sure why. I heaped it with the rest of the useless work by the time middle school came about ^_^ I learned sex through first porn and then trial and error with a boyfriend. So far I have had exactly zero complaints about how well I've done
Objectifying a thing is not unhealthy, and is infact necessary. The person is in that bag of flesh: know what the bag of flesh is. It devalues my relationships in no way at all for me to know that someone is in a human platform, and has pleasure centers here, there, and yonder which they appreciate being activated in our alone time together. I agree that if you see you're partner as nothing but a way to get off: there is something wrong... UNLESS you are paying for sex and they are not a partner past this agreement. Porn is not depersonalizing my relationships (healthy or unhealthy I'll never be sure), and is infact a good guide for what I would like to have done to me, and for what someone else might like being done to them.
Tacky Wrote:9-I’m not saying we should ban porn, even if that would work. Legal porn is fine; I like chocolate you don’t, to each their own. I’m saying I’d like the porn industry to take some accountability for its affect on society and stop trying to cater to illegal demands blurring the lines of legality and encouraging/ promoting fantasies of rape, abuse and exploitation.
It does not blur the lines of legality any more than a movie about a war does by depicting people being shot/butchered/blown up/whatever. I do not have difficulty distinguishing between a real war and an acted war (real war is much worse, look to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Fro...ld_War_II) for an actual war).
I will, however, grant you that I wouldn't mind a lot of things many consider to be taboo or disgusting, and that porn likely had a hand in expanding my tastes to an extent. Being transexual has a lot more to do with my ever-expanding options though
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 1:20 pm
That poll is (when only atheists are considered in the poll) 100% for porno. The only opposing votes are the religious people in this forum.
I dont want to sound like a dick, but I pretty much assumed that most, if not all of the religious members would vote against it and every atheist would vote for it.
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 1:24 pm
(April 1, 2011 at 1:20 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: That poll is (when only atheists are considered in the poll) 100% for porno. The only opposing votes are the religious people in this forum.
I dont want to sound like a dick, but I pretty much assumed that most, if not all of the religious members would vote against it and every atheist would vote for it.
I don't count as a theist now? I believe in every god of the vigil and every baleful god and believe further that there are others. I'm a theist. And I can even prove their existence to you, if you play Rift
You should count me as a theist, even though you know I'm really an atheist and that Rift is a video game (an awesome one with an awesome dev team, notsomuch awesome support team but I hear they are working on that).
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Sae...you are a breeze of fresh air...and then you hang your bare feet in that breeze to air them out as you paint your toe nails black with purple polka dots. Needless to say I can chat with you all day..as long as the beer keeps flowing, that is.
...now if only i had a comely beer wench at my disposal...
RE: Pornography - are you for or against it and why?
April 1, 2011 at 6:12 pm
(April 1, 2011 at 4:35 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Sae...you are a breeze of fresh air...and then you hang your bare feet in that breeze to air them out as you paint your toe nails black with purple polka dots. Needless to say I can chat with you all day..as long as the beer keeps flowing, that is.
...now if only i had a comely beer wench at my disposal...
I am disappointed... I couldn't find a full choir singing this. I used to have it sung at church by an awesome man and his wife together with the church, and it was beautiful. All solo attempts at it suck. Hard. Below was the least worst solo I could find
