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God is a Mass Murderer
#31
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 7, 2020 at 8:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Humans don't need God's word to kill anybody.
God is just the scapegoat some use to justify their means.

The only killing animal is the human without morals.

Humans with morals also kill.  There are very, very few human beings that cannot express their moral agency.

You got the other part dead on.  Gods are and always have been scapegoats for this or that human impulse, this or that tragedy.  That..in fact, is all that they are or ever have been. The poor mans god is crucified, and the warlords god burns the heathen. Personally, I trust the moral agency of a killer more than that of a true believer. Aping some other asshole's dusty justification for warcrimes as a matter of faith. It's simply not possible to believe in the gods of our magic books without compromising our moral agency.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#32
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 8, 2020 at 1:07 am)Belacqua Wrote: Christianity is full of various ideas, to the point where almost nothing we can say about it is true of every Christian.

For an outsider it is "full of ideas" but for a Christian there is only one Christianity. That's why Christians have been killing each since the begining over whose ideas are right. For instance in A.D. 385 at Trier, Germany, bishops put to death Priscillian and his followers for doubting the Trinity and the Resurrection.

Or take in 1200s Albigenses in France doubted the biblical account of Creation, considered Jesus an angel instead of a god, rejected transubstantiation, and demanded strict celibacy. So Pope Innocent III ordered all of them to be put to death and we're talking about 20 000 people killed.

And so on...

But yeah for an outsider to criticize Christianity is hard, because looking from the outside it seems that Christians themselves don't know what definition of Christianity is. Even Bertrand Russell ran into this problem in his essay "Why I am Not a Christian", where he writes

Bertrand Russell Wrote:What is a Christian?

Nowadays it is not quite that. We have to be a little more vague in our meaning of Christianity. I think, however, that there are two different items which are quite essential to anyone calling himself a Christian. The first is one of a dogmatic nature -- namely, that you must believe in God and immortality. If you do not believe in those two things, I do not think that you can properly call yourself a Christian. Then, further than that, as the name implies, you must have some kind of belief about Christ. [...]  The geography books counts us all in, but that is a purely geographical sense, which I suppose we can ignore. Therefore I take it that when I tell you why I am not a Christian I have to tell you two different things: first, why I do not believe in God and in immortality; and, secondly, why I do not think that Christ was the best and wisest of men, although I grant him a very high degree of moral goodness.

But for the successful efforts of unbelievers in the past, I could not take so elastic a definition of Christianity as that. As I said before, in the olden days it had a much more full-blooded sense. For instance, it included the belief in hell. Belief in eternal hell fire was an essential item of Christian belief until pretty recent times. In this country, as you know, it ceased to be an essential item because of a decision of the Privy Council, and from that decision the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Archbishop of York dissented; but in this country our religion is settled by Act of Parliament, and therefore the Privy Council was able to override their Graces and hell was no longer necessary to a Christian. Consequently I shall not insist that a Christian must believe in hell.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#33
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 7, 2020 at 10:33 pm)masoni Wrote: the idea that there’s a set of rules (immoral ones) that one must not break, and if you break these, no matter how trivial, nonsensical or absurd they may be; with ‘not loving him’ being the number one crime, you will be punished and tormented for eternity. it’s morally abominable.

This is from William Blake's Jerusalem:

Quote:Jehovahs Salvation
Is without Money & without Price, in the Continual Forgiveness of Sins
In the Perpetual Mutual Sacrifice in Great Eternity! for behold!
There is none that liveth & Sinneth not! And this is the Covenant
Of Jehovah: If you Forgive one-another, so shall Jehovah Forgive You
That He Himself may Dwell among You. 

[...]

O Mercy O Divine Humanity!
O Forgiveness & Pity & Compassion! If I were Pure I should never
Have known Thee; If I were Unpolluted I should never have
Glorified thy Holiness, or rejoiced in thy great Salvation.
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#34
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 8, 2020 at 5:06 am)Belacqua Wrote:
(May 7, 2020 at 10:33 pm)masoni Wrote: the idea that there’s a set of rules (immoral ones) that one must not break, and if you break these, no matter how trivial, nonsensical or absurd they may be; with ‘not loving him’ being the number one crime, you will be punished and tormented for eternity. it’s morally abominable.

This is from William Blake's Jerusalem:

Quote:Jehovahs Salvation
Is without Money & without Price, in the Continual Forgiveness of Sins
In the Perpetual Mutual Sacrifice in Great Eternity! for behold!
There is none that liveth & Sinneth not! And this is the Covenant
Of Jehovah: If you Forgive one-another, so shall Jehovah Forgive You
That He Himself may Dwell among You. 

[...]

O Mercy O Divine Humanity!
O Forgiveness & Pity & Compassion! If I were Pure I should never
Have known Thee; If I were Unpolluted I should never have
Glorified thy Holiness, or rejoiced in thy great Salvation.

That song is meant to be sung while standing in a tea chest with a bag on your head at the mattress department.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#35
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 8, 2020 at 5:47 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: That song is meant to be sung while standing in a tea chest with a bag on your at the mattress department.

Boru

Did you leave out a word after "your"?

Probably you're thinking of Blake's Preface to Milton, set to music by Parry. When people later made it into a hymn they renamed it "Jerusalem." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXEqFMFFsQo

I guess you can sing it with your feet in a tea chest if you want. 

Most people who sing it don't know the theology behind it, which is that Christ is not a person but a state, which is resurrected whenever and wherever we act in a way that's Christ-like. It's a long-held view of mystics, including St. Theresa of Avila. 

Blake's Jerusalem is a long poem. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_...ant_Albion
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#36
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
She was a christian, who believed that jesus..a real person...was christ.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#37
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 7, 2020 at 4:38 pm)masoni Wrote: More murders have been committed in the holy name of God than for any other reason. (Well, children do tend to emulate their parents, so I guess that’s not too surprising.) God has variously commanded death to those who believe differently, (Exodus 22:19) those who have sex outside of marriage, (Leviticus 20:10/Leviticus 21:9) those who work on the Sabbath, (Exodus 31:12-15) homosexuals, (Romans 1:24-32) people who curse their parents, (Leviticus 20:9) and children who make fun of men who require Rogaine. (2 Kings 2:23-24) And that’s just for starters.

Blind loyalty in antiquity was pretty much worldwide. Back then most humans lived under local king states. Even in ancient China and India, Rome and Greece, depending on the ruler, that ruler could be quite brutal to dissent. The bible reflects the age in which it was written.
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#38
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 7, 2020 at 8:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote: His language is disgusting and doesn't even worth more than few words in reply.

god is a filthy fucking pig  Consoling
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#39
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 8, 2020 at 9:50 am)masoni Wrote:
(May 7, 2020 at 8:31 pm)WinterHold Wrote: His language is disgusting and doesn't even worth more than few words in reply.

god is a filthy fucking pig  Consoling

Lol, and we all know how much bloodshed pigs caused in Islam. Like in 1989 in Moradabad, India, when a pig caused hundreds of people to kill one another when the animal walked through a Muslim holy ground. Muslims, who think pigs are an embodiment of Satan, accused Hindus of driving the pig into the sacred spot. Members of both faiths went on a rampage, stabbing and clubbing. The pig riot spread to a dozen cities and left two hundred dead.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#40
RE: God is a Mass Murderer
(May 7, 2020 at 8:20 pm)Belacqua Wrote:
(May 7, 2020 at 8:08 pm)masoni Wrote: god is an asshole

The obviously fictional god you've chosen to post about which some Christians believe in is an asshole.
threatening people with eternal damnation for not following him. seems pretty asshole-like to me.

(May 7, 2020 at 8:31 pm) pid=\1973942' Wrote:
(May 7, 2020 at 8:20 pm)Belacqua Wrote: The obviously fictional god you've chosen to post about which some Christians believe in is an asshole.

How many gods, fictional or otherwise, are there in Christianity?

the concept of the "holy trinity" was created to address this contradiction, but the father, son, and holy ghost continue to divide christians today.
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