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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:21 am
No shame in admitting that you like to get high, Nudgy.
However, mind-altering substances do just that, alter the mind.
It doesn't mean the mind is altered to experience something beyond reality. It just means people are gullible.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:26 am
-and, just to clear away any seemingly pessimistic streak...it may be the case (I think certainly is the case) that present and future religious experimentation includes that regimentation more, and more strongly.
A religion of nature conceived of with no animating force or spirits directly referential to scientific facts is not just a possibility, but a contemporary concern. If or when that religion comes..it, too, will be subject to this item that applies to any religion.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:31 am
The conceivability of something is almost assuredly in direct accordance with the imagination. Certainly, inventers are known to make a reality what they create. The same cannot be stated for those of the theistic persuasion.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:32 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2020 at 10:33 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 17, 2020 at 10:21 am)Eleven Wrote: No shame in admitting that you like to get high, Nudgy.
However, mind-altering substances do just that, alter the mind.
It doesn't mean the mind is altered to experience something beyond reality. It just means people are gullible.
How do you think we figured that out? We got high, and got people high...alot. We understood what a drug was and what effects it could have long before we came up with science or could explain how it had those effects.
Insomuch as people can be said to get getting high wrong (?) they didn't do so because they failed to make accurate observations, record those observations, or experiment. They said they saw a dragon? - I bet they did.
Dial that all the way up to religion. They say there's a dragon? Who cares, the secularism humanism present in our justification does not depend on whether they really saw a dragon, or whether dragons are real. So what if they get it wrong because they're bad at experimenting. Being good at it, getting it right, and actually proving their religious beliefs to be true would not in any way shape or form exempt them from separation.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:34 am
Have they proven a damn thing?
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2020 at 10:38 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
(November 17, 2020 at 10:03 am)Ranjr Wrote: We should distinguish between scientific experiments such as measuring and logging environmental data, and personal experiments like, "what happens if I do acid and coke at the same time?" It's a broad term that takes different meanings in those contexts.
Experiment needs to be a broad term. Not only do the questions, methods, and tools differ between branches of science (physics to biology) they differ greatly within each field as well (cognitive neuroscience to molecular neuroscience). As long as a variable is being manipulated (taking coke and acid) and another variable is being affected (what happens to me) you have an experienced.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2020 at 10:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Wouldn't matter if they had.
We've posited that the standards, values, and metrics of human governance are and must be uniquely human. It's on account of that necessary human interest that people who very much believed that their normative religious beliefs were true still thought it prudent to prevent them from being written into or out of law.
It isn't an issue of whether any religious belief is true, but that we have decided to make some fact true about how we govern.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 10:49 am
(November 17, 2020 at 10:36 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Experiment needs to be a broad term. Not only do the questions, methods, and tools differ between branches of science (physics to biology) they differ greatly within each field as well (cognitive neuroscience to molecular neuroscience). As long as a variable is being manipulated (taking coke and acid) and another variable is being affected (what happens to me) you have an experienced.
Florida Man's experience is not measured. It is perceived then lost and only documented as a generic police report. Big difference. There must be a measurement.
When West Virginia man picks up a snake to see if God will protects him, there is no God detector. That practice is not an experiment. It's a ritual.
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2020 at 11:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
There's probably no hard line between experiment and ritual. Consider sexual maturity.
What we can say, charitably, is that if you believe that a snake won't bite you, for some reason, picking up a snake is a rather intuitive test of that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Separation of Science and State
November 17, 2020 at 11:24 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2020 at 11:26 am by John 6IX Breezy.)
(November 17, 2020 at 10:49 am)Ranjr Wrote: Florida Man's experience is not measured. It is perceived then lost and only documented as a generic police report. Big difference. There must be a measurement.
Hmm what do you consider a measurement to be? In other words, we know a measurement has occurred when what?
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