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Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
#11
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 12:36 am)Ranjr Wrote: Basic tenet.  Right?

[Image: OTcosmos.jpg]

Do you think the authors of the Bible were Flat-Earthers? It makes little sense to me to assume they were. Flat-Earthers often cite the "mountain so high you can see all the kingdoms from the top of it" from the Gospel of Luke as evidence that early Christians were flat-earthers, but I think it was obvious that such a mountain does not actually exist (if it existed, then it would be visible from everywhere on Earth). Saint Paul did despise Ancient Greek philosophy, but I don't think he thought the Earth was flat. In fact, I am quite sure he believed the Earth to be a sphere revolving around the Sun, when he alluded to Aristarchus'es work by saying that stars are unimaginably distant and a lot higher than the Sun and the Moon. He also alluded to the Aristotle's theory of spontaneous generation (what you sow does not sprout unless it dies) when explaining how dead people can resurrect.
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#12
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 5:05 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:
(December 2, 2020 at 12:36 am)Ranjr Wrote: Basic tenet.  Right?

[Image: OTcosmos.jpg]

Do you think the authors of the Bible were Flat-Earthers? It makes little sense to me to assume they were. Flat-Earthers often cite the "mountain so high you can see all the kingdoms from the top of it" from the Gospel of Luke as evidence that early Christians were flat-earthers, but I think it was obvious that such a mountain does not actually exist (if it existed, then it would be visible from everywhere on Earth). Saint Paul did despise Ancient Greek philosophy, but I don't think he thought the Earth was flat. In fact, I am quite sure he believed the Earth to be a sphere revolving around the Sun, when he alluded to Aristarchus'es work by saying that stars are unimaginably distant and a lot higher than the Sun and the Moon. He also alluded to the Aristotle's theory of spontaneous generation (what you sow does not sprout unless it dies) when explaining how dead people can resurrect.

Why do you think Paul disagreed with Aristotle on astronomy, but agreed with him on biology?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#13
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
Paul™ didn't despise greek philosophy, he quoted it..constantly..., in his magic book. A neverending stream of verbatim lifts - what a schoolkid today would get into trouble for plagiarism over.

He was obsessed with plato, socrates, and seneca - but he also quotes works of greek pop-fiction when they turned a clever phrase that reminded him of god. Like any evangelist today, really. Dropping little nuggets of borrowed profundity here and there between quoting blockbuster movies. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the characters most endearing traits because it just doesn't fit his origin narrative. For him, having plato or socrates or seneca was like hiding a playboy under the bed, and looking at his work - it's clear that he had quite the pile of taboo materials.

The other possibility, ofc, is that Paul™ was not who he said he was - which to one extent or another is the mainstream view of the historical paul. He was a man who took many liberties with his written work and his life's story.
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#14
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 6:09 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(December 2, 2020 at 5:05 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: Do you think the authors of the Bible were Flat-Earthers? It makes little sense to me to assume they were. Flat-Earthers often cite the "mountain so high you can see all the kingdoms from the top of it" from the Gospel of Luke as evidence that early Christians were flat-earthers, but I think it was obvious that such a mountain does not actually exist (if it existed, then it would be visible from everywhere on Earth). Saint Paul did despise Ancient Greek philosophy, but I don't think he thought the Earth was flat. In fact, I am quite sure he believed the Earth to be a sphere revolving around the Sun, when he alluded to Aristarchus'es work by saying that stars are unimaginably distant and a lot higher than the Sun and the Moon. He also alluded to the Aristotle's theory of spontaneous generation (what you sow does not sprout unless it dies) when explaining how dead people can resurrect.

Why do you think Paul disagreed with Aristotle on astronomy, but agreed with him on biology?

Boru

I don't think that. My point is that Paul, although he said he does not like Greek philosophy (If I correctly remember from when I read the New Testament a few years ago, he complained about how Greeks will not accept anything that does not fit their philosophy, even though they know it is made by imperfect humans.), arguably believed Greek philosophy was mostly true when it comes to natural world.
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#15
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
He consistently employed greek philosophers words as his own comments on the divine as well, and on his perceived relationship with it.

That was the language and those were the stories that the author of Paul was familiar with, and that the intended audience of Paul was familiar with.... even though it's not in keeping with the narrative character of the legendary or mythical paul, and so we see it in what that author wrote in spite of how the author wrote the character of paul.

It would be no different than an american writing an american novel about an anti-american american in american english... using american tropes, slang, and cultural references.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#16
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
Wasn't the "Ocean of Heaven" a way to explain where all that water came from? A recent artifact?
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#17
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
No, the purpose of ancient cosmologies was ethical and religious - not the mere explanation (or any explanation) of mundane events or states of affairs. "All that water" came from the ground up. The ocean of heaven is something else. I probabl;y has more to do with asserted dualities - as above so below - and the function it served as separation between this world and heavens shores.

Something like an ocean, though not an ocean nor really made of water..but something like an ocean in the way we feel when we apprehend oceans, and serving many of the same purposes that oceans serve between groups of people (and for them).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#18
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
If you have that "proper" meaning somewhere I'd like to borrow it.
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#19
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
The schismatic disagreements of religious sects don't have any effect on the explicit purposes of religious cosmologies.

They can all take it to mean whatever they want, so if that's the context of proper it's a doa request. That religious cosmologies were constructed to explain ethical and religious concepts rather than why it rained, for example...was one of those purposes, the purpose of the authors who constructed and commented on them at length.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#20
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 11:02 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:
(December 2, 2020 at 6:09 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why do you think Paul disagreed with Aristotle on astronomy, but agreed with him on biology?

Boru

I don’t think that. My point is that Paul, although he said he does not like Greek philosophy (If I correctly remember from when I read the New Testament a few years ago, he complained about how Greeks will not accept anything that does not fit their philosophy, even though they know it is made by imperfect humans.), arguably believed Greek philosophy was mostly true when it comes to natural world.

(Bold mine)

You just said that Paul accepted heliocentrism (which Aristotle rejected) and accepted spontaneous generation (as did Aristotle).

Are you saying things you don’t think or thinking things you’re not saying?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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