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Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
#21
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 5:05 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: Do you think the authors of the Bible were Flat-Earthers? It makes little sense to me to assume they were. Flat-Earthers often cite the "mountain so high you can see all the kingdoms from the top of it" from the Gospel of Luke as evidence that early Christians were flat-earthers, but I think it was obvious that such a mountain does not actually exist (if it existed, then it would be visible from everywhere on Earth). Saint Paul did despise Ancient Greek philosophy, but I don't think he thought the Earth was flat. In fact, I am quite sure he believed the Earth to be a sphere revolving around the Sun, when he alluded to Aristarchus'es work by saying that stars are unimaginably distant and a lot higher than the Sun and the Moon. He also alluded to the Aristotle's theory of spontaneous generation (what you sow does not sprout unless it dies) when explaining how dead people can resurrect.

Read up on Hellenistic Judaism, which centered in Alexandria and extended to Antioch and Jerusalem.  Study it and you may see evidence that Greek influence on Judea developed Christianity.  Paul believed in the firmament, because that's where, in his version, demon spirits killed Christ.  The Ascension of Isaiah demonstrates the seven heavens, which are spheres but I don't recall it saying earth was flat.  I think it helps to view these texts in terms of ancient cosmology, but I don't know what the authors believed or who the truly were.
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#22
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
Here is why abrahamics have believed in the ocean of heaven -

Quote:"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Because god imposed a heavenly order, and the description given was of separating waters from waters. The moon and the sun and clouds and rain and stars and space are all in the firmament. The ocean of heaven is the border between all of that and gods throne, as decreed by god. It's a claim to territory and boundary and authority and power. The firm and impassable barrier between this world and the other world. Where the material ends and the spiritual begins. It's apart, outside, and all around.

The only way to get through, as christians would have it, is through christ.

Or..dumb dumbs were trying to explain rain. 50/50.
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#23
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 1:10 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(December 2, 2020 at 11:02 am)FlatAssembler Wrote: I don’t think that. My point is that Paul, although he said he does not like Greek philosophy (If I correctly remember from when I read the New Testament a few years ago, he complained about how Greeks will not accept anything that does not fit their philosophy, even though they know it is made by imperfect humans.), arguably believed Greek philosophy was mostly true when it comes to natural world.

(Bold mine)

You just said that Paul accepted heliocentrism (which Aristotle rejected) and accepted spontaneous generation (as did Aristotle).

Are you saying things you don’t think or thinking things you’re not saying?

Boru
Aristotle said anything about heliocentrism? News to me. Where can I read more about it?
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#24
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 2, 2020 at 1:25 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote:
(December 2, 2020 at 1:10 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (Bold mine)

You just said that Paul accepted heliocentrism (which Aristotle rejected) and accepted spontaneous generation (as did Aristotle).

Are you saying things you don’t think or thinking things you’re not saying?

Boru
Aristotle said anything about heliocentrism? News to me. Where can I read more about it?

Aristotle was one of the more prominent proponents of the geocentric model. Have a google.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#25
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
If I can give this one more go....

Those who believe the world is flat are taking something factually accurate about reality and believing it has a different shape. This is all about a disagreement about the shape of an object within reality.

Those who believes a god exists are taking something unknown about reality and believing it to be a known accurate fact.
This is all about a disagreement about the existence of an unknown that has no known properties, only asserted properties.

Gullibility is at the root of both of these falsely held beliefs and there is also something else at hand too.
Both sets believe they are aware of special information that only members of their own group have been able to unearth. They see themselves as special for being able to connect the dots that others just can't see.

They have convinced themselves that THEY are privy to the truth.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#26
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(November 29, 2020 at 2:34 pm)FlatAssembler Wrote: So, what do you guys here think, is comparing theism with Flat-Earthism valid?
In my latest YouTube video about atheism, I compared some arguments made by theists with some arguments made by Flat-Earthers.
According to me, saying evil in the world is caused by free will is similar to saying ships disappearing bottom first is caused by waves. You can (and should) explain some instances of ships disappearing bottom first with waves, but obviously ships disappear bottom first even when there are no waves. Similarly, you can (and should) explain some instances of evil in the world as a result of free will. Holocaust was a result of people wanting Holocaust to happen and acting to achieve that. But, obviously, some evil in the world cannot be explained that way. Earthquakes being one of the most obvious examples.
Also, according to me, the dialectological argument, "If there is no God, why does the universe behave logically?", is similar to the Flat-Earthers using the horizon appearing to rise with you as you climb as an argument that the Earth is flat. Let's say there is a God, how does a God explain the universe behaving logically? It doesn't. In fact, if there is a God, we would expect actions not to have unintended bad consequences, but they do. Similarly with the horizon appearing to rise with you as you climb. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the theory that the Earth is round cannot explain it (it can, but let us pretend it cannot). So what? How does the Earth being flat explain that? It does not either: if the Earth was flat, we would expect there to be no horizon in the first place.
I was wondering what you think?
The bible does talk about the circle of the earth. Why would God prevent all bad things from happening.
1. people make their own choices, the devil works strong in the minds of people. 
2. If God only did good things and allowed good things to happen He not be God. 
3. God has a sovereign will, where He works for the good of all men and for their bad too.
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#27
RE: Comparing Theism with Flat-Earthism
(December 21, 2020 at 2:59 pm)Prycejosh1987 Wrote:  
2. If God only did good things and allowed good things to happen He not be God. 

Yeah, if God behaved only good and if he didn't allow bad things to happen, he would be Superman.

(December 21, 2020 at 2:59 pm)Prycejosh1987 Wrote: 3. God has a sovereign will, where He works for the good of all men and for their bad too.

So does why God work for the bad of the people? Is it because he's an asshole?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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