Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
 
Our first allegiance is to our countries.
 
Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.
 
Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?
 
Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.
 
Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.
 
Regards
DL

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

No, religions that preach inequality are not necessarily traitors to their countries.

My first loyalty is manifestly NOT to my country.

I’d be uncomfortable if religious people were to be discouraged from expressing their views freely and openly. But I disagree that that’s where things are headed.

I think you can ask religious groups whatever you want, I don’t think they should be coerced into giving you the answers you’re looking for.

The Job story is allegorical.

What other forms of free speech would you like to curtail?

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

 
Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?
 

 
Regards
DL

They already are, and as we come to a more expansive view of harm and a more effective form of law enforcement then our mainstream religions will find themselves more and more constrained while simultaneously less and less capable of lobbying the government for pet treatment.

Christians absolutely will have to stop with the hate preaching if they want to continue to grift billions from the federal government, and they do. Meanwhile, it's in large part because society has changed that christianity has been changing with it, and leaving those things behind. Hence the dominionists mad scramble in the us these last few decades.

[zebo-the-fat]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
 
Our first allegiance is to our countries.
 
Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.
 
Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?
 
Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.
 
Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.
 
Regards
DL

Why is our first allegiance to our country? What if you live in a country that does terrible things to its citizens?
I have never understood the idea of being "proud" to belong to particular country, I am British but that is just an accident of birth I have done nothing to achieve that state so how can I be proud of it? (I regard many things in Britain to good and sensible, others are just silly, I suspect that will apply to most countries)

[brewer]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Are religions preaching traitors,.........no.

Are religious practicing traitors,.........no.

At most those practicing might be criminal. Depending on the community probably socially undesirable.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think that GIA is asking about an uncomfortable (but possibly inevitable) moment. The defining aspect of a genuinely held religious belief is the production of unifying moral content. It is already true and will forever continue to be true that there are religious beliefs that compel their adherents to positions and actions against the interest of our respective countries. We already restrict many of these forms of speech and these forms of expression.

It's not credible to dismiss the notion that a harmful religion might need to be suppressed or deemed illegal for the public good by a reference to free speech or expression.

It's a tough spot, because those people are citizens with interests who have an expectation that those interests will be serviced by their governments. They will never stop trying to write gods law on earth or cast gods vote in an election - because they believe that it's the right thing to do. I'm discarding stochastic terrorists and stable paramilitary movements not because they aren't an issue inextricably tied to this - but because the kingdom of god doesn't actually need those agents or those actions to prevail, and even to prevail over the interests of a nation and it's people. It's happened before, it's happening now, it will happen again. The good and motivated voters for the kingdom of heaven have caused more harm and misery than the extremists. Are we truly writing them a free pass? I'd say no, and that brings us right back round to the uncomfortable and inevitable. It's uncomfortable because we've been over this ground so many times and it's full of landmines - but we do keep returning to that ground and we do have a justification for it and free speech and free expression are not objections to that justification - they're a part of it.

---

-as if on cue

The Justice Department has submitted for White House approval a change to how it enforces Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits recipients of federal funding from discriminating based on race, color or national origin. The regulation covers housing programs, employers, schools, hospitals, and other organizations and programs.

...............

The move is the latest in the Trump administration’s efforts to pare back civil rights protections for minority and other groups. It has curtailed other regulations, reversed affirmative action policies and cut government diversity training. The Justice Department effort also dovetails with a decades-long project in the conservative legal movement to push back on civil rights protections seen as going beyond the law.

The Justice Department quietly submitted the change to the White House Office of Management and Budget on Dec. 21, making it one of former Attorney General William P. Barr’s final acts. It did not make the language available for public review or comment, as is typically required in the federal rule-making process, citing an exception for matters related to agency loans, grants and contracts because the rule covers organizations that receive federal funding.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/us/po...ticleShare

Our boy Billy Barr..is a dominionist who never saw civil rights legislation he didn't immediately recognize as an existential threat to his political aims. In this case, discriminatory agents had trouble bellying up to the federal trough - and that needed to be fixed.

[Anomalocaris]

Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
 
Our first allegiance is to our countries.
 
Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.
 
Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?
 
Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.
 
Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.
 
Regards
DL

I think the notion that our first allegiance is to our country is every last bit as throughly morally bankrupt as the notion that we own some allegiance to some contrived god or “savior”.

[HappySkeptic]

I think the notion that our first allegiance is to our country is every last bit as throughly morally bankrupt as the notion that we own some allegiance to some contrived god or “savior”.

I totally agree.  In Canada, we are skeptical of shows of patriotism.  If you love your country, great -- its a love of those you know and some of things you've collectively built.  But all too often patriotism is an statement of political allegiance.  For instance, if you are a "patriot", you shouldn't value the lives or well-being of foreigners, or you shouldn't support that "other" party.  Patriotism can be a mask for bigotry.

So, we have some celebrations once in a while.  On Canada Day we can get our free Tim Hortons coffee and watch some bands play and see some fireworks.  Its a party, and we can say "hey, we really aren't just some backwater wanna-be-state-of-the-US.  Maybe we deserve a bit of self-love".  And then we go back to trying to think of people as people, and not worrying about who is a "Real Canadian".

[The Grand Nudger]

You appear to be describing the issues of bigotry masked as patriotism - but if bigotry finds any reason to mask itself, and mask itself specifically as patriotism, what are those qualities which are seen to be value making?

We do much the same on the 4th every year with respect to being a backwater of britain.

[Greatest I am]

No, religions that preach inequality are not necessarily traitors to their countries.

My first loyalty is manifestly NOT to my country.

I’d be uncomfortable if religious people were to be discouraged from expressing their views freely and openly. But I disagree that that’s where things are headed.

I think you can ask religious groups whatever you want, I don’t think they should be coerced into giving you the answers you’re looking for.

The Job story is allegorical.

What other forms of free speech would you like to curtail?

Boru

The speech of those who advocate for an anti-blasphemy law to end criticism of the vile gods.

The mainstream religions have used inquisitions and jihads to grow due to lack of decent moral tenets.

They do not, or at least did not believe in freedom of speech as they denied it to us for 1,000 years of Dark Ages.

Religions still would silence truth, as evidenced by their demonstrable lies.

Regards
DL