trying to adopt an amoral worldview

[The Architect Of Fate]

What kind of stuff is taught in a seven class?

If you get to the 7th class, you are already a zen master and you cop crap like this!
(nested hypotheticals!) ... I think the true answer is to punch the teacher in the nose!

This reminds these videos





And 

[Rhizomorph13]

I would suggest that you look inward and see what games you are willing to engage in then use your own ruleset to engage with the world to win the games you are willing to play.

There are many considerations to account for though:

Do something, even if it is wrong. We learn by doing; failure can be a great teacher.

Everyone is the hero of their own story. So, be careful that you aren't skewed in your judgement of yourself.

Some people are just toxic and you should avoid them. Even if you are related to them.

As for "getting the girl" well you need to do something to increase your value and there are many avenues for that depending on your strengths.

Try to avoid virtue signaling. If you hold a virtue then express it when it makes sense, act on it when you are compelled, and avoid trying to use signaling to win some pussy.

There are no easy answers, and many of the short cuts you might have heard of are grifts used by cons so they can win their game.

[Rev. Rye]

If getting laid is going to be your main goal, well, you basically have three options:

1) Try and improve yourself, give girls a reason to want to be with you, and get out there and try it.

2) Keep doing either nothing or doing worse than nothing, in which case, you're unlikely to get anywhere. If you somehow end up becoming a successful pickup artist, be aware that, best case scenario, it's a dead end and you're probably going to try to get out of it at some point; the guy who literally wrote the book on pickup artistry ended up doing this.

3) This is going to be an unusual and niche solution, particularly for people on the autism spectrum whose early development did not go well, and especially for people who've come to realise that interpersonal relationships are a minefield that you're not sure you can navigate long term (see: The Phantom Thread or Schopenhauer's parable of the porcupines), try something like, for instance, a RealDoll (as seen in Lars and the Real Girl). Unfortunately, since those start off at $4,000 and even then, as many options as they may have, they might not just be right, a cheaper option may be in order. What I've chosen was a dakimakura (a Japanese hugging pillow). The component parts? A 20x60 pillow by Acanva which may or may not be on Amazon, and a Custom body pillow cover with two full-body shots of underrated aughts actress Alison Lohman on either side. While it took me three months to actually get it in the mail from China (the burgeoning pandemic and the holidays may have had something to do with it), the customer service is extremely prompt. Once you give them the images you want to use (and they're okay with copyrighted images, fortunately), they'll work with you to make it look the way you want it to (be sure to use photos that can actually fit with the 3:1 aspect ratio of the pillow). I don't think that any email I sent them spent more than an hour without a reply. And once you actually get the pillow in the case, you have an ersatz girlfriend! And Alison and I will be celebrating our one-year anniversary in over two weeks.

[HappySkeptic]

Since this has devolved into a question of "why does being a nice guy not attract girls", I'll give my two cents.

Most girls do like nice guys. They also like confidence and success. Miss those last two, and the first one doesn't matter.

But, there different types of "nice". There is "I'm nice because I never contradict the crowd", and there's "I'm nice because I am confident in my values, and one of them is to not treat people badly". The first doesn't impress anyone. Having good ethics can be attractive to women and to friends.

[arewethereyet]

Since this has devolved into a question of "why does being a nice guy not attract girls", I'll give my two cents.

Most girls do like nice guys.  They also like confidence and success.  Miss those last two, and the first one doesn't matter.

But, there different types of "nice".  There is "I'm nice because I never contradict the crowd", and there's "I'm nice because I am confident in my values, and one of them is to not treat people badly".  The first doesn't impress anyone.  Having good ethics can be attractive to women and to friends.

Agreed.

There is nice and then there is being a doormat "nice".  The first is preferable.

[vulcanlogician]

Hi, I''m new here. So... I came here because I could use some pointers if you have any. 

I left Christianity a decade ago after reading the whole Bible. I had too many intellectual problems with it. But now, a decade after the fact, I still find myself looking at people in terms of "good" and "bad". But I've seen "bad" people be rewarded lavishly by nature for stabbing their friends in the back and stealing their girlfriends AND friends; these people are some of the most loved people I know. I still see that through the lens of "fairness"; I see it as being a bad person, being immoral, etc. I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. I don't want to be that weak person who thinks he'll get what he wants by being "good". Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for how much of life should be seen as "climbing the dominance hierarchy" and "being kind to your fellow man". I dunno. I'm just confused right now, and if this post made no sense, I wouldn't blame you.

If you get what I'm trying to say though, I'd really appreciate some pointers. I'm sure I'm not as seasoned in the "real-world" thinking as a lot of you atheists-for-life are. Thanks.

The world sucks. Backstabbing assholes frequently get their way. People with noble objectives are frequently frustrated. So what?

Is that a reason to not be a good person? At first glance it may seem like a good reason to not have anything to do with morality. But looked at another way, this could be seen as a call to moral action. After all, a hideously unfair world needs morality the most. A person who goes around doing good deeds is a real asset in a world full of pricks. In a world that is already perfect, what purpose does a morally correct deed even serve?

Morality is a very worthwhile endeavor to pursue, especially in a world as horrible and unjust as ours. The fact that our world is unjust should spur you toward moral action, rather than away from it. The religious often like to frame morality in a sense that good is worth doing because of the rewards it entails (such as a good afterlife, etc.). But REAL morality is directed towards the goal of making the world a better place, not securing yourself tickets to a more pleasant afterlife.

One thing you should drop from your religious upbringing is the idea that some people are "better" than others. Work on doing the right thing yourself, as best as you can. And if someone appears to be "bad," take that as a good reason to keep your distance. Or if you see this person doing something that hurts another human being, stop them. Or try to help the person whom they harm. 

But never take it as a cue to think they are entitled to less than you are. That's not your call to make. Maybe they earned whatever it is they have. Despite being an asshole, they worked hard for whatever it is they got. Who knows? Certainly only a person who is privy to every detail of their lives could say if they deserve whatever it is they have. It is inconsequential to the moral practitioner whether good people are rewarded or bad people are punished. What matters is: "Do my own actions improve the world or make it worse?" 

I don't recommend adopting an amoral world view. But if you do adopt such a worldview, at least do it for the right reasons. Are you really convinced that one kind of action is no better than another? Then go ahead and be a moral nihilist. But if you do become a nihilist, ask yourself: Have you given other hypotheses due credence? 

You rejected religion because of "intellectual problems." (Same here by the way.) But --since you can reject a belief system due to intellectual problems-- doesn't that mean you can reject wrong actions because of intellectual problems? It is my belief that you can. So, rather than adopting an amoral view, you might consider adopting a moral view with no "intellectual problems." (ie. a nonreligious one.)

[Drich]

Hi, I''m new here. So... I came here because I could use some pointers if you have any. 

I left Christianity a decade ago after reading the whole Bible. I had too many intellectual problems with it. But now, a decade after the fact, I still find myself looking at people in terms of "good" and "bad". But I've seen "bad" people be rewarded lavishly by nature for stabbing their friends in the back and stealing their girlfriends AND friends; these people are some of the most loved people I know. I still see that through the lens of "fairness"; I see it as being a bad person, being immoral, etc. I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. I don't want to be that weak person who thinks he'll get what he wants by being "good". Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for how much of life should be seen as "climbing the dominance hierarchy" and "being kind to your fellow man". I dunno. I'm just confused right now, and if this post made no sense, I wouldn't blame you.

If you get what I'm trying to say though, I'd really appreciate some pointers. I'm sure I'm not as seasoned in the "real-world" thinking as a lot of you atheists-for-life are. Thanks.

actually being a former Christian gives you great incite as to how this world works. like you pointed out in this world good is evil and evil is good. if you want to be rewarded by the master of this world then simply follow the lines of evil you yourself have observed. I know what your asking is how to be evil and not feel guilty of being evil. the trick i have observed here and other atheist platforms is to simply tell yourself there is no god over and over and over again. deny everything and all proof. because if you can kill god in your mind you can silence the heart enough to be that 'moral' person the world demands you to be.

if however you grow weary of this, you can always go home. not to trade good deeds for works mind you that was never the deal. but rather serve God and if you are found diligent in your responsibilities you will be given

[arewethereyet]

Hi, I''m new here. So... I came here because I could use some pointers if you have any. 

I left Christianity a decade ago after reading the whole Bible. I had too many intellectual problems with it. But now, a decade after the fact, I still find myself looking at people in terms of "good" and "bad". But I've seen "bad" people be rewarded lavishly by nature for stabbing their friends in the back and stealing their girlfriends AND friends; these people are some of the most loved people I know. I still see that through the lens of "fairness"; I see it as being a bad person, being immoral, etc. I would love to come out of this mindset and adopt another one more in tune with the way the universe actually works. I don't want to be that weak person who thinks he'll get what he wants by being "good". Unfortunately I don't have a good feel for how much of life should be seen as "climbing the dominance hierarchy" and "being kind to your fellow man". I dunno. I'm just confused right now, and if this post made no sense, I wouldn't blame you.

If you get what I'm trying to say though, I'd really appreciate some pointers. I'm sure I'm not as seasoned in the "real-world" thinking as a lot of you atheists-for-life are. Thanks.

actually being a former Christian gives you great incite as to how this world works. like you pointed out in this world good is evil and evil is good. if you want to be rewarded by the master of this world then simply follow the lines of evil you yourself have observed. I know what your asking is how to be evil and not feel guilty of being evil. the trick i have observed here and other atheist platforms is to simply tell yourself there is no god over and over and over again. deny everything and all proof. because if you can kill god in your mind you can silence the heart enough to be that 'moral' person the world demands you to be.

if however you grow weary of this, you can always go home. not to trade good deeds for works mind you that was never the deal. but rather serve God and if you are found diligent in your responsibilities you will be given

Bold mine.

Wandered off in mid-thought again?  

Given what?  Twinkies, gold doubloons, 72 virgins?

[The Grand Nudger]

This is going to come as a surprise to you Drich...but atheists don't consider gods...at all... in our moral considerations. There's no utility in denying them, just as there's no utility in invoking them, lol.

[Ranjr]

There are plenty of Christians with amoral views.  Joining a church or being baptized doesn't free one of a personality disorder.  In cases of megachurch leaders and theocrats, religion justifies and amplifies the defect.