Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus is Not God

[Tearjerker]

Well, in most deities it's believed that God respired a portion of itself into men. By that logic everyone's God.

Of course since I believe this is a manner of complete bullshit I see no point in the argument. Man (human) is what man is plain and simple, regardless of what people cracked some of them to be. Besides what's the point in arguing on this subject when something as conflicted as God could not decide on only one perfect deity and therefore failed to present it correctly to mankind. What's the point in believing in God when he fails to prove his existence to his followers from every different religion and cult. What's the point in believing in a God who fails to show his flock! that it is he/she/it/whatever that is important and not the way how people should put their belief in exercise.

So go ahead and decide if Jesus is God or not.

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this comment is based on the general belief that god exist, however that's not what I believe I only brought the subject up for the sake of mockery.

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[fr0d0]

I really really really don't want to get into this discussion with you Rayaan, but I'll answer and leave it there if you don't mind. You did just ask my opinion after all.

1 Jesus never claimed Divinity [start time 3:38]
He claimed divinity (John 8:58) and thus equality with God (John 10:28-30). These claims led to charges of blasphemy (Matthew 26:63-66) and death by crucifixion.

Reason #10 - God Can not be Born! [start time 04:00]

Jesus is fully God and fully man. Man can be born.

He was God before he was born in the flesh: "In the beginning was the Word ... and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

"before time" *ahem* (notes logical gaff)

Reason #09 - There is unequivocal textual evidence [start time 05:05]

See 1

Reason #08 - No one has seen God! [start time 09:20]

Jesus's outward form was human. You don't "see" God by looking at Jesus. You see God by his actions... by looking where he has been. People seeing Jesus were not automatically convicted of his divinity. That required faith, as it does now.

Reason #07 - This was the not belief of early Christians [start time 11:31]

There were many deviations that were not what I'd call mainstream Christianity. Islam would call itself a Christian religion if that were so, as it shares some of these ideas. That is not, however, consistent with the universal (catholic (small 'c')) church's position.

Reason #06 - Jesus Ate, Slept, and Prayed [start time 14:38]

Jesus was also fully man and deferred to God the Father many times > acknowledging the limitations of his human form. He also forgave sins, healed people and performed miracles. Here we find fully human and fully divine natures related.

Reason #05 - Jesus claimed that God's Knowledge is greater than his [start time 16:44]

He made the distinction between himself and God the Father, yes. God limited himself as Christ, otherwise he couldn't be a human. To follow that through to its logical conclusion you could also say that God could have no influence on this reality, because that would also be limiting himself... but this is fully consistent with Christianity and the miracle of Jesus... God incarnate.

1 God and not 3 Gods [start time 20:07] Christians declare there to be 1 God, three in one. Like Genesis One verse 26 says... "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image" http://bible.cc/genesis/1-26.htm <-- note all translations use the plural. How can Islam ignore that and claim a singular.

Reason #04 - Jesus Explicitly states that he is not God [start time 20:10]

Misinterpretation. Verse 1: "Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him." ...only God can forgive sins.
Verse 11: "Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me." ...Jesus is saying that his name is the same as God.

Universal message:
According to Jesus' own words, his mission is universal:
His death is meant to accomplish the redemption of all mankind - Mt 20:28 = Mk 10:45; Jn 3:16; 4:42; 12:32; etc.
His gospel message was to be preached to all mankind - Mt 10:18; 24:14; 28:18-20; Mk 13:10; 14:9; 16:15; Lk 4:25-30; 24:47; Jn 17:20-21: Acts 1:8.
His kingdom includes people of all nations - Mt 8:11-12; 21:43; 25:31-32; Lk 13:28-30; Jn 10:16; 11:52.

Reason #03 - Son of God? [start time 22:50]

Everyone was called lord [time 23:31] Jews and Christians refused to acknowledge the Roman emperor as "the Lord" (in an absolute sense, which is the way the emperor wanted it) because only God was "the Lord." Yet Jesus was called Lord, even the Lord

In Philippians 2, Jesus is said to be "in very nature God" (verse 6); and is to be worshiped as Lord: "At the name of Jesus every knee should bow ... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" (verses 10-11). This statement paraphrases Isaiah 45:23, where God speaks of himself.

Children of God yes. Sons of God? Only one I know of.

Reason #02 - God does not change [start time 29:29]

Again, John 1:1 "He was God before he was born in the flesh: "In the beginning was the Word ... and the Word was God"

Reason #01 - God is the object of Worship! [start time 43:05]

Jesus IS God. Moot point.

[time 43:37] He got the wrong verse, it's Matthew 15:9 and not 15:18 where Jesus says, "they shall worship me in vein"
Mistranslation. The text is clearly about the false worship practised:

The Pharisees prayed in the synagogues, read, and, in their way, expounded the books of Moses, and the prophets, to the people, diligently observed the rituals of the ceremonial law, brought their offerings and sacrifices to the temple, and neglected nothing appertaining to the outward service of it; and yet it was all "in vain", and to no purpose; since the heart was wanting, no grace there, they acted from wrong principles, and with wrong views; their worship was merely outward, formal, and customary.

Fully God
Isa. 9:6; Matt. 11:27; 16:16; Mark 2:5-7; Luke 5:20-22; 9:20; John 1:1; 1:14; 2:19, 21; 3:13, 31; 5:18; 6:38; 8:58; 9: 38; 10:17; 10:30; 13:3; 14:9; 14:23; 16:15; 16:28; 17:8; 17:21-23; 20:28; Romans 9:5; 1 Cor. 10:3-4; 15:47; 18:4-6; 2 Cor. 8:9; Phil. 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-17, 19; 2:9; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:2-3, 8-11; 2:7, 9, 14, 16; 13:8; 1 John 5:20; Rev. 1:8, 17; 2:8; 3:14.

Fully human
Matt. 1:1, 18-25; 4:2; 26:38; Luke 1:26-38; 9:58; 22:44; John 1:14; 11:33-35; 19:28, 34; Romans 9:5; 1 Cor. 15:3; Gal. 4:4; Phil. 2:5-11; 1 Tim. 2:5; 3:16; Heb. 2:14-15, 17-18; 4:15; 10:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 4:2; 2 John 7.

[Rayaan]

You don't know what he is. Or who he is. Or even if he even exists. Yet you assume you know exactly how he wants you to live your life and you oblige to some rather strict codes of conduct about how you get to act in the vain hope of some sort of afterlife. It's Pathetic.

I do believe in God but I don't claim to know that He exists nor even be able to define Him fully.

Since I believe in God, it's not unreasonable for me to follow a religion as well because the same belief that I have was also shared by the Prophets like Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Noah, etc. and this was the foundation for the monotheistic religions. As for the codes of conduct, the reason that I believe in them is because if I believe that God has placed millions and millions of interconnected biological instructions in our bodies, then, it's not that different for me to think that God would make external instructions for us to follow as well (as we see in religion). There are many kinds of laws - laws of motion, physics, chemistry, etc. - and if believe that God created them then it's not unconvincing for me to believe that God has made moral laws, too.

The Trinity was always a bit confusing, that's the only point from this show I agreed with, but he wasn't refuting the Christian view of the Trinity and Jesus divinity, he was refuting his own misinterpretation of the christian view.

I don't think he was misinterpreting his own view of Christianity but rather the misinterpretation of some Christians, because as indicated by fr0d0's post, there are already many verses in the Bible which infer that Jesus is God (even though I'm not sure what are the correct interpretations). But, I'm aware that maybe this is not the mainstream view of Christianity (as you and tackattack said). Both of you said that you do believe in the Trinity but do not believe that Jesus is God.

I understand NOT believing in something if you say you dont know. But how do you reconcile BELIEVING you something you say you do not know?

I believe in God mainly because of a kind of inductive reasoning by looking at the complexity of the world around me. It seems to me that there is some kind of an "intelligence" unfolding in the universe when I look at the beauty and complexity of the stars, planets, the variety of animals, plants, the human body, and so many other things in the universe. They are like the fingerprints of an intelligent designer even though I don't see Him directly. So, what I'm saying is that the fact that I believe in God doesn't have to mean that this has to be true only after knowing Him.

Gadzooks! It sounds to me like you don't know what the fuck you believe in. Maybe you're one of those Muslims who takes the position that it is possible that all of this Islam stuff is complete bullshit, but just in case it is true, you better claim to be a believer, lest you wind up in hell.

No, if I thought that Islam is complete bullshit, then there's no reason for me to claim to be a believer. Pascal's wager wouldn't suffice either.

I really really really don't want to get into this discussion with you Rayaan, but I'll answer and leave it there if you don't mind. You did just ask my opinion after all.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't want to argue with you either, and I shouldn't, because it seems that my knowledge of Christianity is poorer than yours and you have studied the religion a lot more than I did. So, that's why I'm not fit to debate this topic with you. I just wanted to see how you would support your beliefs by using what is in the Bible. My understanding from your post is that, according to your view of Christianity, Jesus IS God, but I also understand that there's a difference of opinion on this issue among the Christians (i.e. whether Jesus is God or not). This is due to various interpretations of the Bible I suppose. But regardless, thanks for putting the time and effort to respond. I'll look over your post once again.

[corndog36]

there are already many verses in the Bible which infer that Jesus is God (even though I'm not sure what are the correct interpretations).

There are a lot of differing interpretations. I can only speak to the interpretations I learned in my youth. (I've been a an atheist for more than 30 years now.) The '10 reason' do not contradict the relationship of Jesus to God as I understood it from the teachings of the Baptist church that my family attended.

[Strongbad]

I believe in God mainly because of a kind of inductive reasoning by looking at the complexity of the world around me. It seems to me that there is some kind of an "intelligence" unfolding in the universe when I look at the beauty and complexity of the stars, planets, the variety of animals, plants, the human body, and so many other things in the universe. They are like the fingerprints of an intelligent designer even though I don't see Him directly. So, what I'm saying is that the fact that I believe in God doesn't have to mean that this has to be true only after knowing Him.

Complete rubbish! You believe in your god because you were indoctrinated (likely by your parents, who were also indoctrinated when they were children) in Islam when you were a child. Your delusion of an "intelligent designer" is simply a way to justify believing what you have been instructed to believe.

[Captain Scarlet]

I believe in God mainly because of a kind of inductive reasoning by looking at the complexity of the world around me. It seems to me that there is some kind of an "intelligence" unfolding in the universe when I look at the beauty and complexity of the stars, planets, the variety of animals, plants, the human body, and so many other things in the universe. They are like the fingerprints of an intelligent designer even though I don't see Him directly. So, what I'm saying is that the fact that I believe in God doesn't have to mean that this has to be true only after knowing Him.

Then your beliefs are unjustified unless you can demonstrate your epistomology for believing the universe is designed and why they are superior to the natural reasons we either know or believe based on evidence or mathematical proofs, which give rise to patterns in the universe. Teleological arguments were debunked by David Hume centuries ago.

Tell me what does a 'disordered unvierse' look like? Does it look like millions of stars exploding every second, galaxies collapsing in on each other, superclusters flying away at ever increasing speeds? Guess what....

[fr0d0]

I don't think he was misinterpreting his own view of Christianity but rather the misinterpretation of some Christians, because as indicated by fr0d0's post, there are already many verses in the Bible which infer that Jesus is God (even though I'm not sure what are the correct interpretations). But, I'm aware that maybe this is not the mainstream view of Christianity (as you and tackattack said). Both of you said that you do believe in the Trinity but do not believe that Jesus is God.

I checked with tackattack because that confused me... he said he meant that Jesus is not the Father... and that his use of the term 'God' was in reference to the father only... one third of the trinity. So he does believe that Jesus was God, as first ratified by the council of Chalcedon in AD 451. Hopefully tackattack will confirm this.

The Universal Church believes that Jesus is God, and every accepted member adheres to the doctrines laid down at the council of Nicea (particular date evades me, there were a few). All churches belonging to the Universal Church believe that Jesus is God. Those that do not incluse JWs, Mormons, and Christadelphians.

[tackattack]

There is a tautology when practicing apologetics. Typical atheist reference to God refers to what Christians refer to as the Godhead (or God the Father) in a monothestic sense in the singular (Rarely have I seen it differentiated the different aspects of the trinity). When a Christian references the word God it's typically the God the father in the plurality of the trinity.Since it is obvious that he was talking about specific parts of the trinity. Jesus is not the Father, he is the son. Jesus teaches that all glory goes to God the Father and he is a part of the father.

The deity that is the trinity contains the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. Separate but one in will, purpose and substance

[Thor]

Now let's see the Top Ten Reasons why Muhammed was not a prophet of "Allah"....

[Minimalist]

(Rarely have I seen it differentiated the different aspects of the trinity)

Probably because the 'trinity' is an even dumber concept than the godhead.