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Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
#11
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 1:35 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(February 20, 2021 at 1:07 pm)Apollo Wrote: You do realize that physics is the fundamental discipline of science and other sciences like chemistry and subsequently, biology emerge from it.

Fundamental is not synonymous with comprehensive. The cognitive sciences debate the nature and definition of consciousness to the same or greater degree that the biological sciences debate the nature and definition of life. For a physicist to add anything of value to these conversations he should first give a physics-derived definition of life and consciousness.

"Physicist" here is just a flashy way of saying "trust him he's a scientist." News outlets love to report on fMRI studies for the same reason, despite most cognitive scientists considering them of limited insight.

A far more reasonable approach is obviously to take the 34,870th hand account of a mistranslated book written by sheepherders who didn't know where the sun went at night.

Now the great tome of FSM is only 1st hand account first told by a legendary pirate full of honesty and fermented rum, We can know his word to be true.

Verily it isn't too late John, the 9th hr approaches, the axiom seal is broken and the fifth moon of Jupiter moves into the house of Orion. RAmen
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
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#12
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 2:13 pm)brewer Wrote: Can you/the religious give a definition of afterlife and provide evidence of existence, ........evidence that most of us will accept?

My denomination doesn't believe in an afterlife—at least not in any stereotypical sense. They believe resurrections are possible, in a physical souless sense. Resurrections seems to be an issue of difficulty not of possibility; I don't know of any falsifying evidence to the contrary.

I can't speak on behalf of other religions. But I do know the psychologist Donald Hoffman and the philosopher Thomas Nagel do offer alternatives to reality in which consciousness (or something like it) comes first and the physical universe second. Hoffman has an interview with Sam and Anaka Harris in which they discuss the implications of death within such a framework. The speculation was very "afterlife-like" minus the continuation of the self.
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#13
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 1:35 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(February 20, 2021 at 1:07 pm)Apollo Wrote: You do realize that physics is the fundamental discipline of science and other sciences like chemistry and subsequently, biology emerge from it.

Fundamental is not synonymous with comprehensive. The cognitive sciences debate the nature and definition of consciousness to the same or greater degree that the biological sciences debate the nature and definition of life. For a physicist to add anything of value to these conversations he should first give a physics-derived definition of life and consciousness.

"Physicist" here is just a flashy way of saying "trust him he's a scientist." News outlets love to report on fMRI studies for the same reason, despite most cognitive scientists considering them of limited insight.

You are missing the point—at the end of the day everything has to interact with matter and four (so far) forces of nature—whether or not there is something called “conscious” as an entity besides the point. It must be able to interact with particles and forces to exist with our reality. The information he is talking about in the article is the very basic mechanism how interactions produces reality.

Neurons, synapses, blood, veins, all are matter made up of the same particles he’s talking about. You can talk of soul, conscious, what have you all you like but at the end of the day interaction gotta happen. Information gotta emerge.
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#14
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 2:25 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: A far more reasonable approach is obviously to take the 34,870th hand account of a mistranslated book written by sheepherders who didn't know where the sun went at night.

What's unreasonable here is taking one proposition as true on account of another proposition (the one you mentioned) being false. Sean Carroll is still speaking outside of his field, irrespective of the Bible, FSM, etc., being wrong.
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#15
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
I've heard Carroll's claims before, but I don't know enough about them or the relevant physics to determine whether they've got legs or not. Let's just say I'm skeptical.
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#16
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 2:31 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(February 20, 2021 at 2:13 pm)brewer Wrote: Can you/the religious give a definition of afterlife and provide evidence of existence, ........evidence that most of us will accept?

My denomination doesn't believe in an afterlife—at least not in a stereotypical sense. They believe resurrections are possible, in a physical souless sense. Resurrections seems to be an issue of difficulty not of possibility. I don't know of any falsifying evidence in that regard.

I can't speak on behalf of other religions. But I do know the psychologist Donald Hoffman and the philosopher Thomas Nagel do offer alternatives to reality in which consciousness (or something like it) comes first and the psychical universe second. Hoffman has an interview with Sam and Anaka Harris in which they discuss the implications of death within such a framework. The speculation was very "afterlife-like" minus the continuation of the self.

So, you find it strange that a physicist discusses the afterlife, but not when a psychologist and a philosopher do?

What training/credentialing would you accept in order for someone to discuss the subject?

Boru
Ignorance is never valid grounds for the rejection of established facts.
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#17
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
Boring routine life certainly is impossible. But I bet Allah is rewarding good souls with 72 mistresses in heaven.
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#18
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 2:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: So, you find it strange that a physicist discusses the afterlife, but not when a psychologist and a philosopher do?

What training/credentialing would you accept in order for someone to discuss the subject?

Boru

You answered the question yourself: I think cognitive scientists, biologists, and philosophers are in a better position to study these questions.
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#19
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
(February 20, 2021 at 2:40 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: I think cognitive scientists, biologists, and philosophers are in a better position to study these questions.

So you are avoiding the arguments by concentrating on where the arguments came from - it's called the Genetic fallacy.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#20
RE: Life After Death Is Impossible, Says Scientist
There are no arguments to avoid, only credentials that are irrelevant to the subject matter. This is called "alluring the public" by one of my professors.

Imagine the headline: Steven Hawking says we aren't really conscious—here's why.

Unless he gives a physics-based theory of life, death, and consciousness. It's just one scientist speculating about other sciences.
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