Ham vs. Craig

[Angrboda]

If Ham were a Jew he'd still be wondering the desert, o wait, he still is avoiding logic.

Ham can' t be Jewish......


Or lobster...

He could be a cultural Jew.

[onlinebiker]

Is that kosher?

[Brian37]

Ham can' t be Jewish......


Or lobster...

He could be a cultural Jew.

Howard and Raj on "The Big Bang Theory" both respectively joke about eating forbidden meat. Pretty sure in reality that is the case for the sane, no matter what country one is born in.

[Fake Messiah]

I was leafing Craig's new book on Amazon and it is a follow up to this topic on that is Craig's claim how Jesus was a limited person with a limited knowledge who was not connected to some space matrix or as he calls it in this new book "did not have access to the full contents of the mind of Logos" so it would be ridiculous of Jesus to know something that people of his time didn't know.



I mean imagine the dishonesty: it was OK for Jesus to walk on water and raise the dead, but knowing calculus or evolution or quantum mechanics or history of the world is just ridiculous.

The second thing is what would be the point of "coming" here if he didn't know anything to say to people like explain evolution, Adam, and original sin - topics that Craig is dealing with in this book. Apparently, Jesus came here not knowing anything, but just to amuse people with his tricks, and repeat a few sayings from the old testament.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

It turns out that Ken Ham wrote a long Facebook post attacking William Lane Craig how his embrace of evolution makes him not only a false Christian but harmful for people who listen to him and are fooled into being false Christians. Then Craig made a rebuttal video accusing Ham of the very same things. And then Paulogia edited it into a video like those two are having a conversation.

Perhaps the most bizarre part seems to me is at the 15-minute mark where Craig is asked if Jesus knew about the evolution and Craig said "no" saying that Jesus was not all-knowing.
But if Jesus did not know about something so important as to how life functions, like evolution, then why trust him about other stuff like an exorcism (because he obviously didn't know any better) and even the afterlife claims?
Perhaps it opens a whole Pandora's Box of questions: Why even think that book of Genesis was "only a metaphor" when you admit that writers of it obviously did not know any better?

Anyway, here's the video

Craig rejects the trinity?

His comments about Jesus suggest that is the case.

Catholics believe Jesus is a part of the holy trinity. Each persona is ascribed with infinite qualities.

If Jesus is god, he is perfect and so cannot be man and sin.

If Jesus is man he sins and cannot be perfect ,so he is not god.

Ken Ham is an Aussie. Please keep him. His record shows he is liar and a hypocrite.

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The Catholic version of The Nicene Creed.  Formulated at the first Nicene Council in 325 ce. Before that time there was no Christianity and no one set of beliefs making an homogeneous faith.  It was around that time that the one true sect began murdering all opposition and burning their books. They soon started murdering 'pagans'. A graphic example is the murder of Hypatia of Alexandria in 415.

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
 of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
 the Only Begotten Son of God,
 born of the Father before all ages.
 God from God, Light from Light,
 true God from true God,
 begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
 through him all things were made.
 For us men and for our salvation
 he came down from heaven,
 and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
 and became man.
 For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
 he suffered death and was buried,
 and rose again on the third day
 in accordance with the Scriptures.
 He ascended into heaven
 and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
 He will come again in glory
 to judge the living and the dead
 and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
 who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
 who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
 who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
 I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
 and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
 and the life of the world to come. Amen.


What We Believe |The Nicene Creed (usccb.org)

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Hypatia[a] (born c. 350–370; died 415 AD)[1][3] was a Greek Neoplatonist philosopher, astronomer, and mathematician, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, then part of the Eastern Roman Empire. She was a prominent thinker of the Neoplatonic school in Alexandria where she taught philosophy and astronomy.[4] Although preceded by Pandrosion, another Alexandrine female mathematician,[5] she is the first female mathematician whose life is reasonably well recorded.[6] Hypatia was renowned in her own lifetime as a great teacher and a wise counselor. She wrote a commentary on Diophantus's thirteen-volume Arithmetica, which may survive in part, having been interpolated into Diophantus's original text, and another commentary on Apollonius of Perga's treatise on conic sections, which has not survived. Many modern scholars also believe that Hypatia may have edited the surviving text of Ptolemy's Almagest, based on the title of her father 's commentary on Book III of the Almagest.

Hypatia - Wikipedia

Dive into God's Word

[Belacqua]

A graphic example is the murder of Hypatia of Alexandria in 415.God's Word

The myth that Hypatia was murdered for religious reasons is false.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

A graphic example is the murder of Hypatia of Alexandria in 415.God's Word

The myth that Hypatia was murdered for religious reasons is false.

 I didn't say she was, didn't mean to infer it either, apologies. Her murder was about power.

Hypatia was murdered on the  urging of the Bishop of Alexandria.   A pagan, a philosopher  mathematician and woman who disagreed with Christian dogma She had some influence with the Governor  and some of the people of Alexandria. Consequently, she was a threat to the Bishop's power. Anyway, that's my take based on what I've seen and read.  

My reference:  'Hypatia Her Life And Times. Faith L Justice'.   I think that's right. I have two books on Hypatia, one is a novel. I read them pretty close together a few years ago, so I may have gotten them mixed up. I'll have look later and see if I can find them.

[Belacqua]

The myth that Hypatia was murdered for religious reasons is false.

 I didn't say she was, didn't mean to infer it either, apologies. Her murder was about power. [...]

Here is a good summary:

http://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2018/08...ia-really/

I only get picky about this because we're slamming Ken Ham for repeating falsehoods about history that support his ideology. I've seen the Hypatia story used in a similar fashion by atheists.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

 I didn't say she was, didn't mean to infer it either, apologies. Her murder was about power. [...]

Here is a good summary:

http://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2018/08...ia-really/

I only get picky about this because we're slamming Ken Ham for repeating falsehoods about history that support his ideology. I've seen the Hypatia story used in a similar fashion by atheists.

Good summary.  I envy the certitude of the bloke who wrote it. Pretty sure he/she contradicts the book I have. Meh, the details don't matter imo. 

That Hypatia was murdered by Christians of Alexandria is the point imo.    Xians began murdering 'heretics' to start with beginning in the fourth century.  Groups considered enemies was soon expanded to 'pagans', a very broad term at the time. Xians began insisting everyone be like them or else.  That attitude persisted through and after the protestant reformation.

[Anomalocaris]

Kind of reminds me of Comicon dweebs arguing over Superman vs Batman kind of shit.


Just without the spiffy uniforms....

Comicon dweebs are often found to know that Superman and Batman aren’t real, spiffy uniforms not withstanding.

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Here is a good summary:

http://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2018/08...ia-really/

I only get picky about this because we're slamming Ken Ham for repeating falsehoods about history that support his ideology. I've seen the Hypatia story used in a similar fashion by atheists.

Good summary.  I envy the certitude of the bloke who wrote it. Pretty sure he/she contradicts the book I have. Meh, the details don't matter imo. 

That Hypatia was murdered by Christians of Alexandria is the point imo.    Xians began murdering 'heretics' to start with beginning in the fourth century.  Groups considered enemies was soon expanded to 'pagans', a very broad term at the time. Xians began insisting everyone be like them or else.  That attitude persisted through and after the protestant reformation.

Belacque claims to not be Christian,  but often becomes table poundingly apoplectic whenever Christianity, it’s influence on its adherents, or the general effect of its existence on humanity is described in anything  Short of most maximally nauseatingly hagiography terms.     He freely accuses any description of Christianity as the most complete, unmitigated, and maximal boon for mankind as unforgivably bigoted.

This is An interesting perspective to take for one who who claims to have personally not been sufficiently motivated to become a Christian.     I think he dost protest too much by a very large factor, either way.

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The myth that Hypatia was murdered for religious reasons is false.

 I didn't say she was, didn't mean to infer it either, apologies. Her murder was about power.

Hypatia was murdered on the  urging of the Bishop of Alexandria.   A pagan, a philosopher  mathematician and woman who disagreed with Christian dogma She had some influence with the Governor  and some of the people of Alexandria. Consequently, she was a threat to the Bishop's power. Anyway, that's my take based on what I've seen and read.  

My reference:  'Hypatia Her Life And Times. Faith L Justice'.   I think that's right. I have two books on Hypatia, one is a novel. I read them pretty close together a few years ago, so I may have gotten them mixed up. I'll have look later and see if I can find them.

Murdered for threatening power based on religious foundations is different from being murdered for religious reasons how?