Why do you hate God?

[johndoe122931]

Didn't read the whole thing.

To answer the thread title, you can't hate what you don't believe in.

You can hate the organisation that has sprung up around it, that claims to follow it, and that acts in its name.

You can also hate those who claim to speak for it, and, to a degree, those who follow them.

Example:

I don't hate "god".  I simply don't believe it exists.

I do hate the Catholic church for all it has done, and continues to do, to keep itself in influence, wealth, and comfort.

I hate the priests and the nuns who have systematically abused children and others, enforcing racist doctrines against native peoples around the world, and have held back science and learning for hundreds of years.

I hate the leaders of the church for covering up and protecting pedo priests and abusers throughout the world, who perpetuate and celebrate hideous individuals like "mother" Theresa, who stop women from gaining influence withon their boys' club.

And, in many ways, I hate the followers who see these excesses, these abuses, and still blindly follow this outdated organisation or, worse, who support and abet them.

Good morning Valkyrie,

Thank you for your response. I was curious so as to not assume, are the examples you give personally your thoughts and feelings on the subject? The question is Why do you hate God? And your answer is that you don't hate God because he doesn't exist you just hate the individuals that follow the doctrine more specifically the catholic church and the things that they do to people. Sorry, I'm trying to understand and word this as carefully as possible.

---

Thank you for your response I really appreciate it and your honesty.

No problem! And I'm sorry if I came across as critical of your wording. 

One thing you can see already from the replies: Although an atheist doesn't believe in any gods at all, many atheists associate the word "God" with something very specific. They have a very clear picture of what the God who doesn't exist is like. 

I'm reminded of a conversation I heard years ago, between two little kids who were learning English as a second language:
"Is there a gorilla in this room?"
"No there isn't."
"What is it like?"
"..."

So a lot of atheists learned about a specific view of God when they were kids, and that's what they think of. I've been told flat out that I shouldn't talk on this forum about the God of Spinoza, of Jacob Boehme, of William Blake, of Simone Weil, or of Martin Buber. None of these wonderful thinkers would agree with a single item on Brian's list of things that he doesn't approve of. Yet all of them believed passionately in God. For the most part conversations on this forum remain limited to the Sunday School version of the Christian God, and the bad people who advocate it.

It means that the emotional reaction people have to your question is more rooted in personal history than in metaphysics.

Thank you so much for your understanding and patience with me. I want everybody to be as critical with me as they can or want. I know this can be a touchy subject so I will tread lightly and do my best to grasp each individual's reasoning. 

Love the example given about the two students, very interesting, I will think more about that. Thank you for your time.

[brewer]

Good morning Brewer,

Thank you for your response on this subject. As I have responded to another member I do apologize for jumping the gun so to say. I don't mean to assume what one thinks or feels that was not my intention and I will do better in the future. 

I never meant that anybody is wrong in what they believe. I have no issue with people believing whatever they want again I'm only interested as to why they hold the worldview that they do. My wording was wrong and again I apologize for that and will be more careful.

Most of my interactions with atheists have been online. I don't know many atheists and the ones I do know (literally 2) have very different reasons for why they are atheists which lead me down this path of why. I have done the same with other individuals from different worldviews and ask the same question. Why. I know not all atheists are "militant" and most are nice people that live great lives.

It's more than likely that you interact with more than 2 atheists (non believers) you just don't know it. As an atheist living in a primarily christian community I can tell you that most christians assume that everyone around them is christian also. Because of that ignorance, unknowingly, they can often be irritating or offensive. When they do know that I'm atheist their behavior and our interactions often deteriorate.

There are probably as many reasons why people are atheist as there are for being christian. I was raised christian until around age 13, then the illogical claims about the concept became apparent and I left.

Edit: Question, are you Independent or New Independent?

[Brian37]

As I delve deeper into these forums, I find hatred for God and religion that runs to the very marrow of your bones(Not all obviously but many). I see so much contempt and animosity resentment and spite towards anyone who even dares to give one second of their time to the worship of any type of supreme being or deity. As I continue thread after thread, I continue to see this resentment and anathema towards a being that in your very description of self you do not believe in. As I am sure you have probably heard this before but why? Why have so much resentment towards something that you do not even believe exists? I try to understand and look from your perspective and think how I can hate something with every fiber of my being that does not even exist. Could I hate leprechauns so much that I would spend so much time talking about my hatred for them? What did the leprechaun do to me? Then I think maybe it is not the leprechaun perse but maybe the people who believe in leprechauns upsets me so. Now my hatred for the leprechaun is not towards the leprechaun but its believers. How can people believe in such nonsense as a leprechaun? Idiots! Then I ask myself why will I give so much of my energy to the believers of leprechauns? What have they done to me? Yes! That’s it. The believers. The believers are the ones I must attack. Why? Because they knock on my door at 8 am on a Saturday to tell me about how their supreme leprechaun will save me from all my despair and hurt in my life and if I only just believe in the supreme leprechaun and give all my money then I can go to some ultimate utopia after I die. Because they preach to me their leprechaun rules and regulations that they themselves do not even keep. Because they contradict themselves and are hypocrites. Because they make me feel bad about my lifestyle and say how perfect and pure, they are. Because they try to and successfully convert others into their stupid belief system about a supreme leprechaun. Then I continue to think and ponder on this. Why do I hate them so? They have not knocked on my door. They haven’t converted me. I do not really care if they think my lifestyle choices are wrong, I will continue to do what I do and happily. Lots of people contradict themselves and are hypocrites even my fellow (fill in the blank). So then why? Why do I hate them so much? Why do I hate this leprechaun god? Ah, I know. Because they waste their precious time worshipping a fake person and spend all their money and energy on propagating such nonsense. But again, why does that affect me? I do not give my time nor money to them and they don’t take anything from me.  I want to free them from their pain and misery of having to worship such a being. Yet, they are happy to they want to they freely choose to. Well not all of them, their children are forced to. Are they? Maybe at a young age, the child does not have a choice but the same could be said that an individual is forcing a child not to go to the supreme leprechaun church. You are taking the child’s rights away from them to the same degree. How many people left the leprechaun church as they got older? They freely chose to not be a part of it. No, I got it. It is political! The stupid ignorant leprechaun believers are passing legislation within my country that takes away my rights! This I can understand the most. I could see how an individual would feel alienated and disrespected and ignored when a group of people who have a set of beliefs passes these laws that encourage and even reward individuals who have the same belief and could possibly hurt those that don’t, or at the least threaten them with big scary men with big scary guns who at any second could kick in my door and tie me up in chains and lock me in a cage like an animal. But is that what it is? Are there any laws that would do that? I suppose the lack of laws or the prohibition of doing what I want to freely do (Same-sex marriage, Blue Laws, etc.) This I suppose could cause me to want to actively be against a belief or ideology. Yet again are the laws in place so restrictive so adverse that I need to spend my life fighting against this thought or ideology? Well, yes. Ok fair enough. Or, am I looking too deeply into this and my loathing is not exactly in the fictional character called the Supreme Leprechaun nor is it really towards the individuals, well in some way it is, but is it more of tribalism? Do I hate the believers because they believe or because they are the other team? I personally can not stand people who root for the New England Patriots. Do I hate the individuals, or do I hate the team? Do I hate the team or what the team represents? Or do I just hate Tom Brady and anybody who worships him then I hate them too? Am I using the word hate in a hyperbolic sense or is it true to the sense of the word? Do you really “hate” these individuals in the true sense of the word or is it more of just an annoyance? And why?
 
I am sorry ahead of time if I have offended you in playing out this question-answer type of writing. I tend to do this for myself to try to understand something, playing devil's advocate so to say. Please feel free to let me know what I did wrong or correct my understanding. I don’t mean to say that this is how any individual in here thinks or says exactly but I am sure some probably do.

As a Christian, I do not agree with say Islam or Hinduism or Atheist, etc. Yet, at the same time, I do not spend any real amount of energy trying to refute them or condemn them. On the contrary, I tend to spend more time trying to understand them. In doing this I have got some pushback from my own fellow believers as to why I am trying to understand these groups and why in the heck am I reading the Koran! (I get attacked from both sides so to say lol) I read the books (Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, The Havamal, the Humanist Manifesto I, II, & III, etc.) and try to grasp their understanding of the world and why. I go to their websites and their message boards and ask many questions to fully understand their beliefs. Now all this is not to say any individual that proclaims their atheistic belief or Hindu, or Islamic, etc., does not do the same, they do, but my question will go back to why have some much hatred or disdain for them or more specific a god or deity? I am trying to not have any presuppositions when coming into this and am truly trying to understand the individual more than the group. Thank you for your time reading this and if possible if you chose to retort please be as concise and clear as possible so I may understand you as an individual. The last thing I want to do is assume what you mean, as much as it may sound odd, I really truly want to understand you and your belief or lack thereof.

I don't hate Darth Vader or Yoda either. But I certainly do have a problem with bad logic. 

If you had a friend who went around every day saying, "The New York Jets beat Venus Williams in the NHL Stanley Cup", that should drive any sane person nuts. 

Most humans worldwide of all religions, don't critically think about what society and their parents sell them. My question is why don't they? At the same time there are tons of points in our species history where social norms were questioned and because of such, humans made progress. If our species never questioned social norms, our species never would have left the caves. 

I find claims of Vishnu as equally absurd as Apollo and Osiris. I find claims of the Christian God as equally absurd as claims of Allah and Yahweh. Humans worldwide, in every religion simply didn't know better, so they made very bad guesses as to the nature of reality. Now don't confuse my blunt assessment as meaning I hate human rights. I will always value anyone who is non violent even if I think their claims are not credible. 

Non violent humans deserve rights, but claims do not deserve blind value. Don't confuse the bluntness you read here as being the same as wanting to harm or oppress others.

[johndoe122931]

Good morning Brewer,

Thank you for your response on this subject. As I have responded to another member I do apologize for jumping the gun so to say. I don't mean to assume what one thinks or feels that was not my intention and I will do better in the future. 

I never meant that anybody is wrong in what they believe. I have no issue with people believing whatever they want again I'm only interested as to why they hold the worldview that they do. My wording was wrong and again I apologize for that and will be more careful.

Most of my interactions with atheists have been online. I don't know many atheists and the ones I do know (literally 2) have very different reasons for why they are atheists which lead me down this path of why. I have done the same with other individuals from different worldviews and ask the same question. Why. I know not all atheists are "militant" and most are nice people that live great lives.

It's more than likely that you interact with more than 2 atheists (non believers) you just don't know it. As an atheist living in a primarily christian community I can tell you that most christians assume that everyone around them is christian also. Because of that ignorance, unknowingly, they can often be irritating or offensive. When they do know that I'm atheist their behavior and our interactions often deteriorate.

There are probably as many reasons why people are atheist as there are for being christian. I was raised christian until around age 13, then the illogical claims about the  concept became apparent and I left.

Yes, this could be very true. I typically don't go around asking people if they are Christian or atheist, so I can only speak about the two whom I personally know and speak with on this subject. 

I try not to treat anybody any differently because of their worldview. I do know individuals that do that though and it saddens me that they will disregard a person simply because they do not believe as we believe.

Yes! That is what I want to know. In Christianity, we call it our testimony and they vary from one end to the other. I want to hear your testimony! So, for example, you say that you were raised Christian until you were about 13 and that the illogical claims became apparent to you. If I may ask what denomination were you raised in and what claims became illogical to you? What really was the straw that broke the camel's back for you and how did your family respond to that?

---

Good morning Brewer,

Thank you for your response on this subject. As I have responded to another member I do apologize for jumping the gun so to say. I don't mean to assume what one thinks or feels that was not my intention and I will do better in the future. 

I never meant that anybody is wrong in what they believe. I have no issue with people believing whatever they want again I'm only interested as to why they hold the worldview that they do. My wording was wrong and again I apologize for that and will be more careful.

Most of my interactions with atheists have been online. I don't know many atheists and the ones I do know (literally 2) have very different reasons for why they are atheists which lead me down this path of why. I have done the same with other individuals from different worldviews and ask the same question. Why. I know not all atheists are "militant" and most are nice people that live great lives.

Edit: Question, are you Independent or New Independent?

I am IFB. The NIFB goes a little too far in my opinion and goes against Scripture in many ways that I simply do not agree with.

[Brian37]

It's more than likely that you interact with more than 2 atheists (non believers) you just don't know it. As an atheist living in a primarily christian community I can tell you that most christians assume that everyone around them is christian also. Because of that ignorance, unknowingly, they can often be irritating or offensive. When they do know that I'm atheist their behavior and our interactions often deteriorate.

There are probably as many reasons why people are atheist as there are for being christian. I was raised christian until around age 13, then the illogical claims about the  concept became apparent and I left.

Yes, this could be very true. I typically don't go around asking people if they are Christian or atheist, so I can only speak about the two whom I personally know and speak with on this subject. 

I try not to treat anybody any differently because of their worldview. I do know individuals that do that though and it saddens me that they will disregard a person simply because they do not believe as we believe.

Yes! That is what I want to know. In Christianity, we call it our testimony and they vary from one end to the other. I want to hear your testimony! So, for example, you say that you were raised Christian until you were about 13 and that the illogical claims became apparent to you. If I may ask what denomination were you raised in and what claims became illogical to you? What really was the straw that broke the camel's back for you and how did your family respond to that?

Pro tip, "atheist" is NOT a worldview.

We are not sheep. We are as diverse in our nationalities, political views, economic views and skin tones as any other labels.

I know atheists who value the likes of Ayn Rand and vote Libertarian. I know other atheists who value the likes of Che, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba. I don't like either of their economic/political views. And we also come from all the nations of the world. There are atheists in India, Africa, Mexico, Japan, Europe. There are black atheists, white atheists, rich atheists, and poor atheists.  The only thing the word "atheist" means is "off" on claims of god/gods. Outside that we are just as diverse.

[johndoe122931]

As I delve deeper into these forums, I find hatred for God and religion that runs to the very marrow of your bones(Not all obviously but many). I see so much contempt and animosity resentment and spite towards anyone who even dares to give one second of their time to the worship of any type of supreme being or deity. As I continue thread after thread, I continue to see this resentment and anathema towards a being that in your very description of self you do not believe in. As I am sure you have probably heard this before but why? Why have so much resentment towards something that you do not even believe exists? I try to understand and look from your perspective and think how I can hate something with every fiber of my being that does not even exist. Could I hate leprechauns so much that I would spend so much time talking about my hatred for them? What did the leprechaun do to me? Then I think maybe it is not the leprechaun perse but maybe the people who believe in leprechauns upsets me so. Now my hatred for the leprechaun is not towards the leprechaun but its believers. How can people believe in such nonsense as a leprechaun? Idiots! Then I ask myself why will I give so much of my energy to the believers of leprechauns? What have they done to me? Yes! That’s it. The believers. The believers are the ones I must attack. Why? Because they knock on my door at 8 am on a Saturday to tell me about how their supreme leprechaun will save me from all my despair and hurt in my life and if I only just believe in the supreme leprechaun and give all my money then I can go to some ultimate utopia after I die. Because they preach to me their leprechaun rules and regulations that they themselves do not even keep. Because they contradict themselves and are hypocrites. Because they make me feel bad about my lifestyle and say how perfect and pure, they are. Because they try to and successfully convert others into their stupid belief system about a supreme leprechaun. Then I continue to think and ponder on this. Why do I hate them so? They have not knocked on my door. They haven’t converted me. I do not really care if they think my lifestyle choices are wrong, I will continue to do what I do and happily. Lots of people contradict themselves and are hypocrites even my fellow (fill in the blank). So then why? Why do I hate them so much? Why do I hate this leprechaun god? Ah, I know. Because they waste their precious time worshipping a fake person and spend all their money and energy on propagating such nonsense. But again, why does that affect me? I do not give my time nor money to them and they don’t take anything from me.  I want to free them from their pain and misery of having to worship such a being. Yet, they are happy to they want to they freely choose to. Well not all of them, their children are forced to. Are they? Maybe at a young age, the child does not have a choice but the same could be said that an individual is forcing a child not to go to the supreme leprechaun church. You are taking the child’s rights away from them to the same degree. How many people left the leprechaun church as they got older? They freely chose to not be a part of it. No, I got it. It is political! The stupid ignorant leprechaun believers are passing legislation within my country that takes away my rights! This I can understand the most. I could see how an individual would feel alienated and disrespected and ignored when a group of people who have a set of beliefs passes these laws that encourage and even reward individuals who have the same belief and could possibly hurt those that don’t, or at the least threaten them with big scary men with big scary guns who at any second could kick in my door and tie me up in chains and lock me in a cage like an animal. But is that what it is? Are there any laws that would do that? I suppose the lack of laws or the prohibition of doing what I want to freely do (Same-sex marriage, Blue Laws, etc.) This I suppose could cause me to want to actively be against a belief or ideology. Yet again are the laws in place so restrictive so adverse that I need to spend my life fighting against this thought or ideology? Well, yes. Ok fair enough. Or, am I looking too deeply into this and my loathing is not exactly in the fictional character called the Supreme Leprechaun nor is it really towards the individuals, well in some way it is, but is it more of tribalism? Do I hate the believers because they believe or because they are the other team? I personally can not stand people who root for the New England Patriots. Do I hate the individuals, or do I hate the team? Do I hate the team or what the team represents? Or do I just hate Tom Brady and anybody who worships him then I hate them too? Am I using the word hate in a hyperbolic sense or is it true to the sense of the word? Do you really “hate” these individuals in the true sense of the word or is it more of just an annoyance? And why?
 
I am sorry ahead of time if I have offended you in playing out this question-answer type of writing. I tend to do this for myself to try to understand something, playing devil's advocate so to say. Please feel free to let me know what I did wrong or correct my understanding. I don’t mean to say that this is how any individual in here thinks or says exactly but I am sure some probably do.

As a Christian, I do not agree with say Islam or Hinduism or Atheist, etc. Yet, at the same time, I do not spend any real amount of energy trying to refute them or condemn them. On the contrary, I tend to spend more time trying to understand them. In doing this I have got some pushback from my own fellow believers as to why I am trying to understand these groups and why in the heck am I reading the Koran! (I get attacked from both sides so to say lol) I read the books (Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, The Havamal, the Humanist Manifesto I, II, & III, etc.) and try to grasp their understanding of the world and why. I go to their websites and their message boards and ask many questions to fully understand their beliefs. Now all this is not to say any individual that proclaims their atheistic belief or Hindu, or Islamic, etc., does not do the same, they do, but my question will go back to why have some much hatred or disdain for them or more specific a god or deity? I am trying to not have any presuppositions when coming into this and am truly trying to understand the individual more than the group. Thank you for your time reading this and if possible if you chose to retort please be as concise and clear as possible so I may understand you as an individual. The last thing I want to do is assume what you mean, as much as it may sound odd, I really truly want to understand you and your belief or lack thereof.

I don't hate Darth Vader or Yoda either. But I certainly do have a problem with bad logic. 

If you had a friend who went around every day saying, "The New York Jets beat Venus Williams in the NHL Stanley Cup", that should drive any sane person nuts. 

Most humans worldwide of all religions, don't critically think about what society and their parents sell them. My question is why don't they? At the same time there are tons of points in our species history where social norms were questioned and because of such, humans made progress. If our species never questioned social norms, our species never would have left the caves. 

I find claims of Vishnu as equally absurd as Apollo and Osiris. I find claims of the Christian God as equally absurd as claims of Allah and Yahweh. Humans worldwide, in every religion simply didn't know better, so they made very bad guesses as to the nature of reality. Now don't confuse my blunt assessment as meaning I hate human rights. I will always value anyone who is non violent even if I think their claims are not credible. 

Non violent humans deserve rights, but claims do not deserve blind value. Don't confuse the bluntness you read here as being the same as wanting to harm or oppress others.

Good morning Brian37,

Thank you for responding I really appreciate it. So, to push a little more, what claims exactly do you find not credible, and are these claims the reason why you chose to not believe in a god? Were you ever a believer before or were you raised atheist?

---

Yes, this could be very true. I typically don't go around asking people if they are Christian or atheist, so I can only speak about the two whom I personally know and speak with on this subject. 

I try not to treat anybody any differently because of their worldview. I do know individuals that do that though and it saddens me that they will disregard a person simply because they do not believe as we believe.

Yes! That is what I want to know. In Christianity, we call it our testimony and they vary from one end to the other. I want to hear your testimony! So, for example, you say that you were raised Christian until you were about 13 and that the illogical claims became apparent to you. If I may ask what denomination were you raised in and what claims became illogical to you? What really was the straw that broke the camel's back for you and how did your family respond to that?

Pro tip, "atheist" is NOT a worldview.

We are not sheep. We are as diverse in our nationalities, political views, economic views and skin tones as any other labels.

I know atheists who value the likes of Ayn Rand and vote Libertarian. I know other atheists who value the likes of Che, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba. I don't like either of their economic/political views. And we also come from all the nations of the world. There are atheists in India, Africa, Mexico, Japan, Europe. There are black atheists, white atheists, rich atheists, and poor atheists.  The only thing the word "atheist" means is "off" on claims of god/gods. Outside that we are just as diverse.

Ok, so how would you like me to refer to it? Everybody is different and I want to respect you in that for future discussions. Some don't care if I say worldview or at least have not objected to it, but you do and that is ok with me so please let me know.

[Foxaèr]

I dislike the god character as naturally as I dislike the voldermort character.

[zwanzig]

I hate God like I hate any other fictional villain. Like Voldemort. Actually... I like movie Voldemort. I don't know if he was supposed to be as sexually charged as I found him. This was a bad example.

Anyway, I can go on a fan hate site for some movie or tv show and talk about how much I hate Christian Grey as a character and everything 50 Shades of Grey represents without someone having to inform me, "Yo! Stop talking about him! He's not real." No duh. I can analyze a piece of fiction and pick apart what the messages are and the motives of characters versus what others think their motives are. Look at the text people! It's abuse!

I also don't think that those who are a part of religion are as harmless as they like to pretend. Believing in fictional things based on no evidence is harmful to the rest of us because it affects their judgment for everything else. It affects normal society when your logic is impeded by what you feel about imaginary things, what the book says, and what you pay your priest to say.

[Neo-Scholastic]

To the OP, many different kinds of people become atheists for many different reasons. Some do so after much intellectual deliberation, others in reaction to abusive treatment. As a group they are distinguished by a common intellectual concern but individually they are as diverse as any other collection of individuals. There really is nothing to understand about 'them' that is unique despite the superficial commonality of being atheists.

[Brian37]

I don't hate Darth Vader or Yoda either. But I certainly do have a problem with bad logic. 

If you had a friend who went around every day saying, "The New York Jets beat Venus Williams in the NHL Stanley Cup", that should drive any sane person nuts. 

Most humans worldwide of all religions, don't critically think about what society and their parents sell them. My question is why don't they? At the same time there are tons of points in our species history where social norms were questioned and because of such, humans made progress. If our species never questioned social norms, our species never would have left the caves. 

I find claims of Vishnu as equally absurd as Apollo and Osiris. I find claims of the Christian God as equally absurd as claims of Allah and Yahweh. Humans worldwide, in every religion simply didn't know better, so they made very bad guesses as to the nature of reality. Now don't confuse my blunt assessment as meaning I hate human rights. I will always value anyone who is non violent even if I think their claims are not credible. 

Non violent humans deserve rights, but claims do not deserve blind value. Don't confuse the bluntness you read here as being the same as wanting to harm or oppress others.

Good morning Brian37,

Thank you for responding I really appreciate it. So, to push a little more, what claims exactly do you find not credible, and are these claims the reason why you chose to not believe in a god? Were you ever a believer before or were you raised atheist?

---

Pro tip, "atheist" is NOT a worldview.

We are not sheep. We are as diverse in our nationalities, political views, economic views and skin tones as any other labels.

I know atheists who value the likes of Ayn Rand and vote Libertarian. I know other atheists who value the likes of Che, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba. I don't like either of their economic/political views. And we also come from all the nations of the world. There are atheists in India, Africa, Mexico, Japan, Europe. There are black atheists, white atheists, rich atheists, and poor atheists.  The only thing the word "atheist" means is "off" on claims of god/gods. Outside that we are just as diverse.

Ok, so how would you like me to refer to it? Everybody is different and I want to respect you in that for future discussions. Some don't care if I say worldview or at least have not objected to it, but you do and that is ok with me so please let me know.

"What claims"? Not up to me. You make a specific claim and I will respond to your specific claim.

I was raised Catholic, and like others here, over time the more I investigated those claims, the less sense they made to me. But don't try to use "there you go, you picked the wrong sect."

Another tip, please understand that most of us here have spent years, even decades debating religion, most of us here are not new to debate. 

As far as Christianity. The two most important stories in the bible are patently absurd and never happened. It takes two sets of DNA to lead to birth, and humans do  not survive having the blood drained out of their body as the death myth would imply. Those are just two examples. But on just about every page of the bible there are outrageous fantastic supernatural claims that are patently absurd. Talking bushes, talking snakes, the earth being made in 6 days. I could go on. 

As far as dismissing claims, Christopher Hitchens , "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be just as easily dismissed without evidence."