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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:40 pm
Quote:You're free to label yourself an animal. Believers at least think there is a god who privileged their species (atheists included OFC).
You mean the objective fact were animals and no one cares your fairy godmother privileged anything. It's meaningless 
Quote:Animals also regularly murder their own kind.. If we were to consider murder as natural. Then, really, this naturalness criterion should be set aside for now.
Accept nobody was making a proscriptive or normative argument from the idea Homosexuality is nature. Fuck your dense.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:40 pm
(June 30, 2021 at 7:39 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A few do, at least. Our closest relatives.
No, they do not.
Boru
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:40 pm
(June 30, 2021 at 7:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (June 30, 2021 at 7:29 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: You're free to label yourself an animal. Believers at least think there is a god who privileged their species (atheists included OFC).
Animals also regularly murder their own kind.. If we were to consider murder as natural. Then, really, this naturalness criterion should be set aside for now.
Animals - apart from humans - do not ever, ever EVER murder their own kind. It isn’t possible for them to do so.
Are you serious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology)
https://www.futurity.org/ants-fighting-1105442-2/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...er-tyrant/
(June 30, 2021 at 7:33 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We also regularly murder our own kind, but that’s not what makes something an animal... and I still think we need to be clear that there’s nothing that animals do that can be called unnatural.
So, in addition to understanding that the entire inference was false, the asserted facts managed to be false as well.
Is that something that you feel might need correcting?
I already defined what I mean by natural = any action that serves our instincts of survival+procreation. Murder is the antithesis of survival => unnatural by definition.
If natural means = anything animals do. It follows that murder is natural, and thus naturalness is a useless criterion when discussing human morality.
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:42 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2021 at 7:43 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
(June 30, 2021 at 7:33 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We also regularly murder our own kind, but that’s not what makes something an animal... and I still think we need to be clear that there’s nothing that animals do that can be called unnatural.
So, in addition to understanding that the entire inference was false, the asserted facts managed to be false as well.
Is that something that you feel might need correcting? And also the fact nobody was saying because it's natural it's moral. In fact, many including myself made the opposite argument. That it would naturalistic fallacy to do so.
Animals can't commit murder as murder is a legal construct
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:43 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2021 at 7:44 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(June 30, 2021 at 7:40 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: (June 30, 2021 at 7:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Animals - apart from humans - do not ever, ever EVER murder their own kind. It isn’t possible for them to do so.
Are you serious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology)
https://www.futurity.org/ants-fighting-1105442-2/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...er-tyrant/
I’m completely serious. The concept of ‘murder’ applies only to human beings. None of what’s contained in your links even approaches murder.
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:45 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2021 at 7:48 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Quote:I already defined what I mean by natural = any action that serves our instincts of survival+procreation. Murder is the antithesis of survival => unnatural by definition.
If natural means = anything animals do. It follows that murder is natural, and thus naturalness is a useless criterion when discussing human morality.
No one cares how YOU define natural and this definition isn't even relevant or true. Homosexuality is natural because it occurs in nature end of story, And again no one was arguing for proscriptive morality from naturalness. That's a strawman you invented.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:46 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2021 at 7:51 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Right, it was Kloro’s insistence, I’m just trying to give him some perspective on why he got the responses he did, and how hilariously inept his every response to those answers was.
It takes a special set of blinders to lead with an insult, respond to a correction of a false claim in that insult both as an insult and leverage it for an insult to others, and then clutch our pearls.
All the while toiling under an invalid form from the getgo.....
You think murder is bad, but that doesn’t make murder unnatural, not even by such a ludicrous definition. In human beings, murder is just as valid a survival strategy as killing is for so many other animals. It often happens in competition over a resource, no less.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:52 pm
(June 30, 2021 at 7:43 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (June 30, 2021 at 7:40 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Are you serious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology)
https://www.futurity.org/ants-fighting-1105442-2/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/211...er-tyrant/
I’m completely serious. The concept of ‘murder’ applies only to human beings. None of what’s contained in your links even approaches murder.
Boru He thinks killing equates to murder
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:52 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2021 at 7:55 pm by R00tKiT.)
(June 30, 2021 at 7:45 pm)Helios Wrote: Homosexuality is natural because it occurs in nature
Barking is natural because dogs bark, barking occurs in nature. Can we have a footage of you barking, wholeheartedly ?
If you feel like there is something wrong with a human being barking- congratulations, you got it: animals' behaviour shouldn't be the criterion for something to be natural.
(June 30, 2021 at 7:46 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You think murder is bad, but that doesn’t make murder unnatural, not even by such a ludicrous definition. In human beings, murder is just as valid a survival strategy as killing is for so many other animals. It often happens in competition over a resource, no less.
Well, if you apply your own survival criterion to homosexuality - homosexuality becomes invalid, only competition over females serves the survival of species. Clearly, promoting homosexuality is not the best way to allocate (female) resources.
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RE: forbidding people to love each other
June 30, 2021 at 7:56 pm
(June 30, 2021 at 7:40 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: I already defined what I mean by natural = any action that serves our instincts of survival+procreation. Murder is the antithesis of survival => unnatural by definition.
If natural means = anything animals do. It follows that murder is natural, and thus naturalness is a useless criterion when discussing human morality.
So, even under your definition, why would 'natural' be good?
You complain that homosexuality doesn't serve our instinct to procreate. To me, that is a positive about homosexuality! There are already too many people on Earth. We should be reducing the population through attrition as opposed to adding more to it.
So, in this sense, homosexuality may well serve our instinct for survival.
In any case, I find the whole argument to be silly. Most people don't choose who they love. They fall in love and decide what to do from there. And there is nothing inherently wrong with men loving men nor of women loving women. And, to go further, there is nothing wrong with people expressing their love for someone via sexuality.
Unfortunately, I am not bisexual, so I am not inclined to share sexuality with anyone who is not female. But that doesn't mean I am against others finding happiness in sex with whoever is willing.
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