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Catholic Church against Cesarean section
#11
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
(August 12, 2021 at 1:59 pm)Spongebob Wrote:
(August 12, 2021 at 12:47 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: The only thing I can sort of piece together is that it's often advised a woman have no more than three C-sections.  I suppose that may promote the use of something other than the rhythm method of birth control, which is a no-no technically for Catholics.  Beyond that, I got nuthin'.

My understanding is that the only acceptable method of birth control is abstinence.  Even masturbation is a no-no because the equipment is there for one thing and one thing only, babies.  Why it feels so damn good is probably because god wants to tempt us with pleasure.  Hell, Catholic men are probably not supposed to enjoy the orgasm.  I imagine women are supposed to say three hail mary's for each one they have as they aren't absolutely necessary for pregnancy.

Abstinence before marriage.

Within a marriage the only allowed method of birth control is what used to be call the rhythm method which was counting days and predicting fertility. They have a new name now...Natural Family Planning.

Old joke - Why to they call it practicing the rhythm method? Because you never perfect it.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#12
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
(August 12, 2021 at 2:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Abstinence before marriage.

Within a marriage the only allowed method of birth control is what used to be call the rhythm method which was counting days and predicting fertility.  They have a new name now...Natural Family Planning.

Old joke - Why to they call it practicing the rhythm method?  Because you never perfect it.

Yeah, I was kind of taking that into account.  It's still pretty low, so if you really don't want children, or any more children, then abstinence is the only reliable option.

And now even NFP is coming under scrutiny.  This article is a little dated, but it suggests that people shouldn't use it because it creates embryos that are disadvantaged and get flushed out before their time.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9...f-embryos/
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#13
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
Old joke

I know a Catholic couple that practices the rhythm method.

They have 11 kids.

All musically inclined.
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#14
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
Rhythm ... where the hell do you find a decent drummer at 2:00 am at very short notice?
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#15
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section


[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#16
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
That's a pretty cool song. When country was worth listening to.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#17
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
(August 12, 2021 at 2:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:
(August 12, 2021 at 1:59 pm)Spongebob Wrote: My understanding is that the only acceptable method of birth control is abstinence.  Even masturbation is a no-no because the equipment is there for one thing and one thing only, babies.  Why it feels so damn good is probably because god wants to tempt us with pleasure.  Hell, Catholic men are probably not supposed to enjoy the orgasm.  I imagine women are supposed to say three hail mary's for each one they have as they aren't absolutely necessary for pregnancy.

Abstinence before marriage.

Within a marriage the only allowed method of birth control is what used to be call the rhythm method which was counting days and predicting fertility.  They have a new name now...Natural Family Planning.

Old joke - Why to they call it practicing the rhythm method?  Because you never perfect it.

You can always have intercourse on a pull-out sofa bed.
<insert profound quote here>
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#18
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
This is a new one on me. I went through 12½ years of Catholic schools and was never taught that the Church opposed Cesarean sections.  Huh
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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#19
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
(August 12, 2021 at 12:04 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: I didn't know that Catholic Church is fervently against the Cesarean section.

I mean, WTF? I guess if there is anything that can ease a woman's life they are automatically against it. They see it against the moral laws (whatever that is), and that it encourages women to take contraceptives.

Instead, they forced women in Catholic hospitals to have symphysiotomy - a procedure involving slicing through the cartilage and ligaments of a pelvic joint (or in extreme cases, called pubiotomy, sawing through the bone of the pelvis itself) to widen it and allow a baby to be delivered unobstructed. Procedure left women with permanent back problems and habitual incontinence.

Here's some text about it (article is from 2014)

Quote:Petrified and in agony, Mary had been subjected to a symphysiotomy – a controversial operation that was seldom used in the rest of Europe after the mid-20th century, but which was carried out on an estimated 1,500 women in Ireland between the 1940s and 1980s.

Critics blame the continued use of the operation on a toxic mix of medical experimentation, Catholic aversion to caesarean sections and an institutional disregard for women’s autonomy. They claim it has left hundreds of surviving women with life-long pain, disability and emotional trauma. For some in Ireland, it is yet another scandal perpetrated against women and girls.

And last week saw the deadline pass for applications to the state’s ex gratia redress scheme, which offered women who have been through the procedure compensation sums of between £40,000 and £120,000. More than 300 women are said to have applied.

Mark Kelly of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties says that, despite having interviewed victims of torture, “this remains just one of the most appalling things that we have come across”. Nigel Rodley, chair of the UN Human Rights Committee, called the use of the operation without patients’ informed consent a “systematic assault”.

Mary says the long-term effects of the operation on her own health have been catastrophic. “I hold down a job, but only because of the painkillers,” she says. “I have arthritis in my hip and in the bottom of my spine. I walk with a limp. No one can help – there’s no way back. Getting up and down stairs or getting up on a chair I can’t really do. You get one leg up, then the other slips down.”

In Our Lady of Lourdes hospital in Drogheda in the north-east of Ireland, symphysiotomy survived well into the 1980s.

Perhaps the most shocking aspect of the women’s stories is the lack of consent. “These operations were covert, and the women were generally not informed it was going to happen,” stresses O’Connor. “The vast majority left hospital without knowing their pelvises had been broken. Many did not find out for decades. This was a mass medical experiment, and the doctors didn’t really study the long-term side-effects. In many cases it destroyed lives.”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle...caesareans


Another article from 2003.

Quote:Insisting that symphysiotomy, the widening of the woman's pelvis in difficult child-births, was a natural procedure in accordance with the moral law and the teachings of the Catholic Church, Dr Barry called for its use rather than "unwarranted and unnecessary" resort to Caesarean section. He even argued that "all the bogies and pitfalls" mentioned in the textbooks against symphysiotomy were "sheer flights of imagination on the part of inexperienced writers".

Contrary to Dr Barry's contention, symphysiotomy proved to be a harmful procedure that was abandoned in the mid-1960s. 

Central to the renewed debate is the claim that the Catholic Church accepted Dr Barry's argument that symphysiotomy was a safer and more wholesome alternative to repeated Caesarean sections, which he warned could encourage women to use contraceptives.

Half a century later Barry's Blackrock address reads more like a preacher's tirade against sexual sin than a learned scientific piece of research. "It is unnecessary to stress to Catholic doctors that the practices of contraception, sterilisation and therapeutic abortion are contrary to the moral law," he thundered. "But what we must all guard against and especially is this so in the teaching centres, is the unwarranted and unnecessary employment of Caesarean section."

Dr Barry told the congress that every Catholic obstetrician should realise that the Caesarean operation was probably the chief cause for the practice by the profession of "the unethical procedure of sterilisation". Furthermore, it was very frequently responsible for encouraging the laity "in the improper prevention of pregnancy or in seeking termination".

There can be no doubt that Dr Barry would have been unable to advocate its adoption as the orthodox practice among Catholic doctors if he had not had Cardinal McQuaid's approval.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/catho...n-1.377151

Motherfucker, that's just evil. Mad
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#20
RE: Catholic Church against Cesarean section
Wow. Another absurd dictate from the Vatican.

Good thing is, most Catholics are like "yeah, whatever" to most of this stuff. And this particular item is most likely ignored by 98% of Catholics.
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