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Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
#51
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
Law enforcement in general has been out of control. No, they shouldn’t be whipping people.

Honestly, borders aren’t that big a deal to me. Sure, we should regulate the travel of specific dangerous people and we should restrict the transport of guns and drugs and human trafficking but that’s not what border agents are doing. Refugees shouldn’t be kept out.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto

"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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#52
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
(September 24, 2021 at 5:53 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Wasn't a total waste, they got valuable building materials out of it.  Turns out mexicans were building walls at home, and americans were paying for them.

Funny!
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#53
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
(September 24, 2021 at 7:12 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Honestly, borders aren’t that big a deal to me.  Sure, we should regulate the travel of specific dangerous people and we should restrict the transport of guns and drugs and human trafficking but that’s not what border agents are doing.  Refugees shouldn’t be kept out.

The problem with open borders, is that citizens have the right to benefit from their own choices.  This includes the money they spent on building the country, and the choices of laws and political governance, and the culture they have built, and even the social safety net.

It isn't a lot different from saying that you should be able to enjoy your retirement, because you saved your money during your working years.  You have the right to something you've created.

Maybe not having open borders is selfish, but then again, perhaps not giving all your retirement money to the poor is also selfish.

I think not having a larger level of immigration is actually bad for the U.S., but I don't live there, so I don't get to say.  The citizens have the right to determine the rate that they can absorb without them feeling like they are damaging what they have built.  Perhaps anti-immigration sentiment is racist - and it likely is, but that doesn't stop them having that right.
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#54
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
Nope, they have no such right. Human rights override all those supposed rights. It's pure irrational xenophobia and it's not just selfish it's evil.
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#55
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
(October 7, 2021 at 6:09 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: I think not having a larger level of immigration is actually bad for the U.S., but I don't live there, so I don't get to say.  The citizens have the right to determine the rate that they can absorb without them feeling like they are damaging what they have built.  Perhaps anti-immigration sentiment is racist - and it likely is, but that doesn't stop them having that right.
They're perfectly free to be racists.  They actually don't have the right to inflict their racism on the rest of us - or our government.  At least not here in the us. I feel like we decisively answered this question with a war?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#56
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
(October 7, 2021 at 6:15 pm)Helios Wrote: Nope, they have no such right. Human rights override all those supposed rights. It's pure irrational xenophobia and it's not just selfish it's evil.

You always seem so absolutely 100% sure of your far-left beliefs, to the point of declaring anything else evil, but have you really determined where they lead? 

If 100% open borders are valid, then would you be fine with 50 million people who don't believe in democracy suddenly gaining Canadian citizenship?  If that is their right, then you have zero right to anything you have built as a Canadian.

I'm fully expecting you to give all your money to the poor as well - because "having stuff" is exclusionary.

(October 7, 2021 at 6:20 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: They're perfectly free to be racists.  They actually don't have the right to inflict their racism on the rest of us - or our government.  At least not here in the us.  I feel like we decisively answered this question with a war?

Everyone is partly racist (it is built into us), and the U.S. is still racist, and yes racism is fueling the anti-immigrant sentiment in the U.S. .  But, it isn't the only reason why a citizen can reject the idea of more immigration.  If it was the only reason, it would be illegitimate, but is isn't the only reason.
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#57
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
There are tons of non racist reasons to restrict immigration - and we engage in each and every one of them - it's just that our current nuts aren't interested in any of those. They're worried about being replaced, instead. What we're doing isn't enough.

As to open borders. Having open borders doesn't mean you don't have property rights. This is an implicit theft narrative..it's wrong..as in factually wrong - logically innaccurate. It's also shitty. People immigrating to my country aren't suddenly the owners of my stuff. They're just more americans, like me. Good luck to em, harder and harder to get stuff. To be completely frank, it would be even harder to get stuff without them coming, legally and illegally. That's just the usual state of affairs - and then 600k of us died....

As to their not believing in democracy? Yeah, that problem is homegrown, here.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#58
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
(September 24, 2021 at 1:42 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:
(September 24, 2021 at 12:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Hitting people with horse reins as opposed to a purpose-built whip is akin to beating someone with a heavy stick as opposed to a purpose-built people-beating club.

A difference which makes no difference is no difference.

Boru
I see some pictures of guys on horses - manuevering hard. Watch barrel racing - reins fly all over the place....


Show me some welts.... If they were whipping people THERE WOULD BE PICTURES OF THE INJURIES.

we ain' t seeing that - are we?


Howcome?

Who would be photographing these injuries? The folks who caused them or the folks they answer to?

You aren’t even trying anymore.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#59
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
Quote:You always seem so absolutely 100% sure of your far-left beliefs, to the point of declaring anything else evil, but have you really determined where they lead? 
My belief is far from "far-left " and yes I have thought about immigration in this country a lot, And yes I hold a morally dim view of Xenophobia.



Quote:If 100% open borders are valid, then would you be fine with 50 million people who don't believe in democracy suddenly gaining Canadian citizenship? 
One of the major drivers of people coming to this country is because we have democracy and rights and tolerance. So this scenario is unrealistic in the extreme.



Quote: If that is their right, then you have zero right to anything you have built as a Canadian.
That doesn't follow as private wealth and accomplishments are not remotely equal to national (public) wealth and accomplishments. Also, you assume immigrants only take and don't build anything of their own when they come here.



Quote:I'm fully expecting you to give all your money to the poor as well - because "having stuff" is exclusionary.
Again private wealth and accomplishment are not remotely equal to national (public) wealth and accomplishments.
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#60
RE: Immigration Agents Whipping Hatian Migrants?
(October 7, 2021 at 6:52 pm)Helios Wrote: Again private wealth and accomplishment are not remotely equal to national (public) wealth and accomplishments.

No, they aren't the same, but I think you overestimate your ability to achieve private wealth without the cultural, economic, political and legal framework that makes it possible.

Countries have the right to determine what rate of immigration is sustainable for them.  I have already said that the U.S. SHOULD have more immigration, but that still gives them the right to to choose those with skills over those without, or to determine if the immigrant is likely to be a burden on the social system.

As for the ongoing never-ending refugee problem at the U.S. southern border, what we are seeing is a no-win situation for any politician.  Backlash against refugees is becoming the driver for right-wing political victories throughout the world.  If Biden accepts all Haitians, he will absolutely lose the next election - guaranteed.
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