[Serious] That Trans Thread

[Jehanne]

I don't use Tor, the sole exception being if I encounter a 502 error due to a DNS sinkhole or a DDoS attack, which is almost never. I never venture into the Dark Web.

Having said that, I do think that privacy is a fundamental human right, and so, I do support Tor. One's mileage may vary, of course, and as with owning a firearm, some PSAs are advised.

[Irreligious Atheist]

I agree, but look at it this way. You know the saying. Males age like wine. Females like milk. How many better looking 72 year old females are there than Caitlyn Jenner? None I can think of off the top of my head.

Females hit their peak around their teen years to early twenties. Males not until their 50s.  https://www.bustle.com/p/women-peak-at-1...s-10220443

Hit their peak according to a dating app...very scientific.

Scientific or not, why do you reckon 18 year olds are the ones getting the most attention and hits on dating websites? Black don't crack. Asian don't crack. Trans don't crack. These groups age more gracefully, but I doubt trans people care much about that and would much rather have just been born in the right body, even if that means more wrinkles, period cramps when you're younger, etc.

[Irreligious Atheist]

John has been known to wear both...

In public?  Does he/she shave his legs (and, in my case, arms), wear makeup, jewelry, pluck his eyebrows (some women like more "bushy" ones, as do I), wear perfume, lipstick, etc.?

In my opinion, until and when a biological male is willing to openly and regularly wear a dress/skirt in public (with or without dark glasses -- I've done both), they have yet to cross the threshold into transgenderville.

Transgenderism has nothing to do with clothing or shaving your legs. Any person of any gender can wear any clothing they want.

Why do they have to wear a dress or skirt in public? What if they're a girl who doesn't like dresses and prefers pants?

All you have to do to cross the threshold into transgenderville is change your gender identity. My daughter goes by they and cut their hair, and identifies as transgender. ALL transgender means is that you now identify with a different gender than you were once grouped in with. You transition to a new gender, hens the trans part.

I think you might be referring to transsexualism rather than transgenderism.

[Jehanne]

In public?  Does he/she shave his legs (and, in my case, arms), wear makeup, jewelry, pluck his eyebrows (some women like more "bushy" ones, as do I), wear perfume, lipstick, etc.?

In my opinion, until and when a biological male is willing to openly and regularly wear a dress/skirt in public (with or without dark glasses -- I've done both), they have yet to cross the threshold into transgenderville.

Transgenderism has nothing to do with clothing or shaving your legs. Any person of any gender can wear any clothing they want.

Why do they have to wear a dress or skirt in public? What if they're a girl who doesn't like dresses and prefers pants?

All you have to do to cross the threshold into transgenderville is change your gender identity. My daughter goes by they and cut their hair, and identifies as transgender. ALL transgender means is that you now identify with a different gender than you were once grouped in with.

I think you might be referring to transsexualism rather than transgenderism.

My claims and statements are completely subjective but, I stand by them, as being my opinion. Most brides and/or bridesmaids are in dresses, but a few are not; their still women, of course, just somewhat out of character, again, in my opinion.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Transgenderism has nothing to do with clothing or shaving your legs. Any person of any gender can wear any clothing they want.

Why do they have to wear a dress or skirt in public? What if they're a girl who doesn't like dresses and prefers pants?

All you have to do to cross the threshold into transgenderville is change your gender identity. My daughter goes by they and cut their hair, and identifies as transgender. ALL transgender means is that you now identify with a different gender than you were once grouped in with.

I think you might be referring to transsexualism rather than transgenderism.

My claims and statements are completely  subjective but, I stand by them,  as being my opinion.  Most brides and/or bridesmaids are in dresses, but a few are not; their still women, of course, just somewhat out of character, again, in my opinion.

At a wedding, sure, but in day to day life, most women probably wear pants. Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of dresses and think they look really pretty, but I just see transgenderism simply as a state of being or a state of mind, and I don't think these people have to put on a performance for anyone to prove that they are validly trans.

[Jehanne]

My claims and statements are completely  subjective but, I stand by them,  as being my opinion.  Most brides and/or bridesmaids are in dresses, but a few are not; their still women, of course, just somewhat out of character, again, in my opinion.

At a wedding, sure, but in day to day life, most women probably wear pants. Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of dresses and think they look really pretty, but I just see transgenderism simply as a state of being or a state of mind, and I don't think these people have to put on a performance for anyone to prove that they are validly trans.

That's what social conservatives claim, it's just a show -- as if there is something wrong with that. But, my point is the exact opposite -- I wear tees, skirts, makeup, nail polish, etc. in private; I also do so publicly. So far as I can tell, I am able to pass as a biological woman, and so, with me at least, there is no "performance".

[Irreligious Atheist]

At a wedding, sure, but in day to day life, most women probably wear pants. Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of dresses and think they look really pretty, but I just see transgenderism simply as a state of being or a state of mind, and I don't think these people have to put on a performance for anyone to prove that they are validly trans.

That's what social conservatives claim, it's just a show -- as if there is something wrong with that.  But, my point is the exact opposite -- I wear tees, skirts, makeup, nail polish, etc. in private; I also do so publicly.  So far as I can tell, I am able to pass as a biological woman, and so, with me at least, there is no "performance".

I didn't mean to say that you were putting on a performance. I commend you for having the courage to be your true self out in the open, and for wearing skirts to the office, and helping to normalise this more by having it become more visible. I understand that most trans women will want to dress super girly, and that's great and I love that style personally, but my point was that there are exceptions, and you don't even need body dysphoria to be trans. For instance, this is a picture of an out of the closet trans man

[Jehanne]

👍

[Rev. Rye]

Trisha Paytas appears to identify more as non-binary than as a trans man.




While they did previously come out as a trans man in 2019, it appears that that was largely down to them not knowing that the gender binary was a lot more complicated than just two. Given that at the same time as their transgender announcement, they simultaneously identified as their birth gender and as transgender “1000%”, this seems to make sense.

[Rev. Rye]

And for the record, when IA talks about people putting on a performance, I suspect that this is what he means:



Seeing gender as not just one’s identity, but as a set of behaviors that one does because that’s what one’s “supposed” to do given the anatomy one is born with. It comes more easily to some than others, but that doesn’t make it any less of a performance.

And an interesting thing this is reminding me of: Some Like it Hot. And don’t worry, I know where I’m going with this. Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis are obviously performing femininity when they pretend to be girls (and it’s obviously a performance, especially with Jack Lemmon’s Daphne being a glorified drag queen), but what may be less obvious is that Marilyn Monroe is putting on a performance as well. And I don’t even mean how Marilyn Monroe is performing as Sugar “Kane” Kowalczyk, or how, indeed, the entire “Marilyn” persona was one that Norma Jean Mortensen could actually turn on and off at will. Even if the way she acts as Sugar was exactly how she was IRL, Judith Butler would likely see what she does as performance. Her clothing, her raw sexuality, her nurturing side as seen in this scene (or at least parts of it that happened before the clip started) are all part of Sugar performing femininity:



And nobody questions whether Marilyn was a real woman, due in no small part to her performing femininity so effortlessly. Gender performance isn’t just something trans folk or a dude in a dress does. It’s something that the majority of people just do, whether they have to put severe effort into it or whether it comes naturally.