Last night my 10-year old daughter said that she did not believe in God.

[Jehanne]

It just came out of the Blue; we were sitting around talking.  (My wife and I did not raise any of our kiddos to be atheistic.)  I played neutral as my daughter and wife discussed the issue.  I did tell my daughter, jokingly, that Santa would not bring presents if she did not believe in his existence.  At that point my wife mentioned the Easter Bunny, also.

Nice. I've always thought playing neutral was the best strategy. If your kiddo ends up being an atheist, it's best that she arrived there through her own questions and reasoning. 

How did the conversation with your wife go? Or did you already provide the basic gist?

I walked out with the Easter Bunny part, as it was getting late and I had housework to get done.  My wife later on sent me this picture which she did not take but my daughter and her titled, "The Meosiah":

[The Grand Nudger]

It just came out of the Blue; we were sitting around talking.  (My wife and I did not raise any of our kiddos to be atheistic.)  I played neutral as my daughter and wife discussed the issue.  I did tell my daughter, jokingly, that Santa would not bring presents if she did not believe in his existence.  At that point my wife mentioned the Easter Bunny, also.

Nice. I've always thought playing neutral was the best strategy. If your kiddo ends up being an atheist, it's best that she arrived there through her own questions and reasoning. 

Children are unlikely to come up with the dead jew on a stick all on their own.  Without some figure of authority or credibility asserting as much, it's probably not accurate to call the situation neutral.  That's how I ended up an atheist too, in all likelihood. I was introduced to too many stories without overt or implicit confirmation of any given story, so they've always been and remain stories. The faithful know this, which is why they very openly stress that a believer ought to tell their kids about christ early and often - otherwise the faithful parent is manufacturing the unfaithful.

Just my two cents.

[Cecelia]

My youngest two thought "god is stupid' when they were about 7. My oldest three are more non-theists, which is mostly how we raised them to be. If you ask them "Do you believe in god?" they're more likely to say "What's God?" Though I imagine most ten year olds are on the verge of not believing in Santa anymore. (Oldest three didn't figure it out until then, or at least pretended otherwise for our benefit. While the youngest two stopped believing when they were 9. Personally had it spoiled for me when I was 4)

[vulcanlogician]

Nice. I've always thought playing neutral was the best strategy. If your kiddo ends up being an atheist, it's best that she arrived there through her own questions and reasoning. 

Children are unlikely to come up with the dead jew on a stick all on their own.  Without some figure of authority or credibility asserting as much, it's probably not accurate to call the situation neutral.  That's how I ended up an atheist too, in all likelihood.   I was introduced to too many stories without overt or implicit confirmation of any given story, so they've always been and remain stories.  The faithful know this, which is why they very openly stress that a believer ought to tell their kids about christ early and often - otherwise the faithful parent is manufacturing the unfaithful.

Just my two cents.

Of course no one is going to come up with Christianity with no indoctrination whatsoever. I've always felt that lended atheism an air of credibility that religion doesn't have.

But, at the same time, lots of stories flying around. Turns out, some kids, raised by atheists may come to believe, via social transmission or they just pick up the holy book and it turns out that it speaks to them. I wanna say that's fine. I think atheism is "better than" needing indoctrination to propagate itself. "Playing neutral" is not just a good idea for god beliefs, IMO. It's the best policy for any non-basic belief about which the child should make up her own mind. God-beliefs just fit the bill nicely here.

For instance, I wouldn't raise my kids to be hard incompatibilists (even though that's what I am). I'd allow them to choose freely whether they accept the theory or not.

[Fireball]

I actually attended church ("Mass") as a member of the RCC when my sons were growing up.  I never spoke against that church. By the same token, there was a lot of practical logic and confronting truth in reality going on, when I raised them. My three sons are atheists. I consider that an achievement, here in the US. They can think for themselves, unburdened by religious dogma.

[The Grand Nudger]

Children are unlikely to come up with the dead jew on a stick all on their own.  Without some figure of authority or credibility asserting as much, it's probably not accurate to call the situation neutral.  That's how I ended up an atheist too, in all likelihood.   I was introduced to too many stories without overt or implicit confirmation of any given story, so they've always been and remain stories.  The faithful know this, which is why they very openly stress that a believer ought to tell their kids about christ early and often - otherwise the faithful parent is manufacturing the unfaithful.

Just my two cents.

Of course no one is going to come up with Christianity with no indoctrination whatsoever. I've always felt that lended atheism an air of credibility that religion doesn't have.

But, at the same time, lots of stories flying around. Turns out, some kids, raised by atheists may come to believe, via social transmission or they just pick up the holy book and it turns out that it speaks to them. I wanna say that's fine. I think atheism is "better than" needing indoctrination to propagate itself. "Playing neutral" is not just a good idea for god beliefs, IMO. It's the best policy for any non-basic belief about which the child should make up her own mind. God-beliefs just fit the bill nicely here.

For instance, I wouldn't raise my kids to be hard incompatibilists (even though that's what I am). I'd allow them to choose freely whether they accept the theory or not.

I guess I phrased that too narrowly.  People don't come up with theism of any kind, on their own.  Took us tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands- depending on when you start the count) of years to arrive there - and it was very certainly a group effort.  My kids don't seem to believe in theistic gods either, and The Wife and I did a similar thing.  They are, still..though, natural animists and supernaturalists.  Sure, they get it (it being christianity, here at least, something else elsewhere) from their peers - but if that were enough then we'd all believe in gods and the faithful wouldn't have very accurately realized that early indoctrination is key.

I'm not commenting on whether or not it's a good thing to raise a child a certain way (I think it's not good that I didn't stress my own beliefs, and that The Wife didn't - for example).  Just pointing out that it's not really neutral to avoid indoctrination when active indoctrination is the definite and relevant article. If you realize that a particular thing has to be done to realize some outcome, and you decide not to do that thing - you've taken a side.

It's probably useful to point out that I draw a line between religious principles speaking to someone and people believing in things like gods. Religious principles speak to all of us, good or otherwise, and they're not really premised on belief in fairies. They're premised on how we believe the world should be. It's uncommon for a person who loses their faith in the bloodgod to then rethink their religious principles. Just not how it works. They still think those declaratives are true, they just don't need them to come from the mouth of a ghost to seem authoritative - and in that sense, there's no change at all - they never did.

As I've commented on before, gods are free riders. They don't lend or build the credibility of the other thing, they consume and benefit from it .

[Ahriman]

As I've commented on before, gods are free riders. They don't lend or build the credibility of the other thing, they consume and benefit from it .

Is that not a god's privilege?

[zebo-the-fat]

As I've commented on before, gods are free riders. They don't lend or build the credibility of the other thing, they consume and benefit from it .

Is that not a god's privilege?

No!

[The Grand Nudger]

No. The concept of a free rider…which religious systems are -extremely- concerned with, isn’t an issue of affording a privilege, but of a thing or person taking advantage to the detriment of the system.

Of contributing nothing. But, I suppose, ultimately…that’s a question for you, not me, or of the concept of free riders. Do you think it would be a gods privilege to contribute nothing while causing harm?

The answer to that is unlikely to tell us anything about gods and their privileges, but will certainly be a comment on you, and according to you, no less.

[Abaddon_ire]

I've noticed that most (not all, there was this one guy adamantly raising his son to be an atheist, don't know how it's turned out) parents of my acquaintance who I know to be atheists prefer their children reach their own conclusions on religous matters and are willing to expose them to information about religion or allow them to go to services if they're curious about it. I see similarities to their typical approach to sex education.

The question I came to that was the big turning point for me was 'Do I believe this or was I told I believe this?'  That's why I let my kids experience different flavors of faith and come to their own conclusions.

Well, it's hard to put a finger in that wound. My own kids shocked me by staging a rebellion against their mother about Sunday mass. On mommies weekends it was all Sunday best and off to church. On mine it was lets watch movies. So they staged a rebellion. We are not going to church. I wept laughing.

My reaction initially before further conversation was "you did who in the what now?" What was most impressive to me was that they had worked it all out. The logic they wheeled out was flawless. I was jaw dropped. 

I never promoted anything. They made their own choices. But I will admit, I was a little proud. Mostly of them, but a little of me. At least I didn't totally fuck up being a dad.