Russia and Ukraine

[The Grand Nudger]

You keep talking about russia but your reasons are just one mans? I agree that putin has no way out, and that's why russia will suffer. China, for it's part, sees a weakened and subservient russia as a global bargaining chip. Not weak enough to be a complete joke when they want to launder threats, but too weak to ever harms chinas own interests. China and (what imagines itself to be) the soviets have been at war as recently as 1969. They have a "special relationship" with russia like we have one with the uk, but neither stops either of us from taking advantage of our very special friends.

Case in point, one of the big issues for russia right now is that western capital, western know how, and western personnel ran their fossil fuel system for western benefit. They don't have the same kind of infrastructure to china, for example, as they have to the us. So..because of sanctions, they lose money on their oil (while asia benefits) which is more costly to transport to the alternatove market in the first place. They'll need an equivalent (honestly, bigger) infrastucture program to change that terminus..which takes time they may not have, money they do not have, and skills that have very recently fled - all as the developed world begins to wean itself from the product.

Putins russia could end up the next north korea..and IDK if you've noticed this or not, but shit aint great in nk even though they have chinese support. All of these things, to a person who isn't wholly up putins asshole for the dumbest of canadian cousin fucking reasons, are arguments for russia to avoid the fate putin has in mind for the country. Sometimes, it seems to me, this shit just writes itself. So what..for russia, if they tried to occupy a foreign nation and got their asses handed to them by the locals? It happens. Happened to us recently. We decided we had an incompetent leader that took us into a losing war of ill defined (official) goals and here we are. Still a world power. Still chugging along.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Thump didn't question what the Israeli PM said. He and I are in agreement on that, so that's a you problem. Thump only argued that the Israeli PM wouldn't be privy to that kind of information, because he's Israeli and not British or American or Ukrainian. I, on the other hand, tend to think the former Israeli PM would be very much privy to that information if he wanted to know it.

No, it's very much a you problem as trotted out a false claim.

And Tomato brought up race, so why are you calling out me for that rather than Tomato? Think, my dude. Call out Tomato for taking it there, not me. I just responded to his little clownish insult he made because he's still uppity about me pointing out how gross it was for him to try to imply that self defense = dragging someone on the ground and assaulting them after they've tried to run away. If it was a video of two kids having a fist fight, then fine, question what caused the fight, but when someone is dragged on the ground running away, there is zero way Tomato can try to spin that around into a case of self defense. Now, I hope we're done talking about that news story and we can move on, and I shouldn't even be posting this now as I'm just falling for Tomato baiting me into talking about it more. So, that's the end of talking about that story. Now, moving on...

What Tomato did or didn't is irrelevant to the statement YOU made that I was objecting to. So this little rant is also moot.

You only care about Ukraine because it's next to Russia. That's it. If you have Ukrainian blood in you and I don't know about it, I'll take that remark back and apologize, but as of now, my stance is that you only care because they're next to Russia. I don't think you care about Ukrainians being white, but many do care about that.

Nowhere did I argue I only care about Ukraine because it's next to Russia that's a very silly accusation. And aside minority of shitheads most people care about the fact they're being invaded and butchered I would gather and no whatever whataboutism your about employ is also moot. 

And Nudge was entirely correct, I must say, when he brought up that many alt-righters just admire Putin because they think he's based. Many of the alt-righters who were once arguing against Islam, are now kind of starting to turn around and say, maybe the Muslims were the based ones all along. I'm talking about the Andrew Tate or incelly type of alt-righters. They're starting to think the Muslims have it right when it comes to keeping the women at home, not allowing them to drive or vote, etc. Putting the clamps down on public displays of homosexuality like some Muslim countries and Putin do. Absolutely real phenomena Nudge was talking about, but if he thinks that's me I just have to laugh. Me, of all people, likes to see gay people getting beaten up in the streets of Russia by bigoted Catholic Russians? I see that and my response is, Putin is so based and bad ass? Not quite. That's not me.

And meaningless word wall 


So congrats on saying a great deal of nothing 

[The Architect Of Fate]

Fair enough. But I have NATO privilege, so you have to protect me, daddy. You take care of me so well.

No he doesn't he could dessert and leave you in the same position you want to leave Ukraine in 

[The Architect Of Fate]

Words like unlikely and likely mean very little on their own. If there is even a 1 percent chance or .5 % chance Russia uses nukes, that's a big enough chance for me to take serious note. I think in terms of the long game. If we keep having nuclear showdowns like this where there's even a .5 percent chance something happens, and we do this over and over again for the next thousand years or two thousand years or 5 thousand years, then eventually, shit hits the fan and it's mutually assured destruction, and it's game over. That's why I take nukes seriously. Not because Russia is going to bomb me and end my life. I don't think of things in those terms. I don't fear death. I'm ready if today is my day. I have seriously bad anxiety, so I fear life more than death. Dying at the hands of a nuke is the last thing I'm personally worried about lol.

No one going to use Nukes....

Edit: And I forgot to mention the prospect of a country being under the false impression that they are being nuked, and then responding in kind. We've had close calls before. That Russian dude saved us by not firing off that nuke when he was ordered to. Shit like that happens as well, and we are so lucky that that man decided to not fire the nuke.

Yup no one has been Nuked 

[The Grand Nudger]

I missed that bit before..but it's on point. "That Russian Dude" that didn't fire the nukes even though his very own putin ordered him to held back because he had good reason to believe that his gear was malfunctioning. Sort of like russians today might wonder if their gear is malfunctioning or their putin has thrown a bolt. No reason for them, to die for that shit, right???

..unless we only brought it up because we're in the camp who thinks he should have mashed that shit hard, even so, like russia is doing to ukraine....

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can't even be mad because that was a funny post. Good on ya.

Mainly because Jon Moxley is pretty much the worst and most ridiculously booked wrestler in AEW with him blading every show to bring out the colour. Am I Mox or Eddie Kingston?

I dunno, I don't pay attention to wrestling. Be who you want to be.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thump didn't question what the Israeli PM said. He and I are in agreement on that, so that's a you problem. Thump only argued that the Israeli PM wouldn't be privy to that kind of information, because he's Israeli and not British or American or Ukrainian. I, on the other hand, tend to think the former Israeli PM would be very much privy to that information if he wanted to know it.

Actually, that is rather questioning the veracity of what he said. I don't know one way or the other; I took you post at face value, but that still doesn't tell me if he's right or not.

So please don't misrepresent my point.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Putin has no incentive to stop the war.

Putin had no incentive to stop this war anyway. He's staked the survival of his regime on it, because he knew going in that defeat would almost certainly lead to the same dissolution that happened in 1992 in the wake of the defeat in Afghanistan, which took down Gorbachev, or the same dissolution that took down the Tsar after the defeat in 1917. He knew from the get-go that failure was not an option, and is now staring failure in its merciless face.

His regime will not survive this war, absent some hardline Stalinist GuLag crackdown which will only erode his support even further. The timer has already started on his rule; he's baking.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I missed that bit before..but it's on point.  "That Russian Dude" that didn't fire the nukes even though his very own putin ordered him to held back because he had good reason to believe that his gear was malfunctioning.  Sort of like russians today might wonder if their gear is malfunctioning or their putin has thrown a bolt.  No reason for them, to die for that shit, right???

..unless we only brought it up because we're in the camp who thinks he should have mashed that shit hard, even so, like russia is doing to ukraine....

For those not in the know:

Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov (Russian: Станисла́в Евгра́фович Петро́в; 7 September 1939 – 19 May 2017) was a lieutenant colonel of the Soviet Air Defence Forces who played a key role in the 1983 Soviet nuclear false alarm incident.[1] On 26 September 1983, three weeks after the Soviet military had shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 007, Petrov was the duty officer at the command center for the Oko nuclear early-warning system when the system reported that a missile had been launched from the United States, followed by up to five more. Petrov judged the reports to be a false alarm.[2]

His subsequent decision to disobey orders, against Soviet military protocol,[3] is credited with having prevented an erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack on the United States and its NATO allies that could have resulted in a large-scale nuclear war which could have wiped out half of the population of the countries involved. An investigation later confirmed that the Soviet satellite warning system had indeed malfunctioned. Because of his decision not to launch a retaliatory nuclear strike amid this incident, Petrov is often credited as having "saved the world".[4][5][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

How much more must the Russian military be doubting their equipment after all the flaws showing up in Ukraine? Nukes deteriorate, sensors malfunction, weak leaders make shoddy decisions ... the uncertainty levels in Russia's military must be pretty nerve-wracking.

[The Grand Nudger]

Goes all the way down to the bottom of the food chain, too. Imagine being told by your superiors, under possible threat of basement window accident, to achieve a political goal with your questionable military equipment. Trust my life or the lives of any of my friends to a convict? Get the fuck out of here. To russian armor or comms??? Nope, and nope. This is all lunatic shit, straight up lunatic shit...from this groundpounders pov. I can see why they're sending nastygrams back to hq and refusing orders in those circumstances.