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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 8:25 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2022 at 8:26 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(September 28, 2022 at 8:14 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 7:06 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Your suggestion exposes these weapons to a quick first strike.
Why would Russia ever have to worry about that??
Because Ukraine has missiles and drones, and has shown itself to be pretty adept at using them (you don’t need nuclear weapons to disable nuclear weapons).
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 8:29 pm
(September 28, 2022 at 8:25 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 8:14 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Why would Russia ever have to worry about that??
Because Ukraine has missiles and drones, and has shown itself to be pretty adept at using them (you don’t need nuclear weapons to disable nuclear weapons).
Boru
If Ukraine joins NATO, a first strike should never be an option, correct?
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 8:41 pm
(September 28, 2022 at 8:29 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 8:25 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Because Ukraine has missiles and drones, and has shown itself to be pretty adept at using them (you don’t need nuclear weapons to disable nuclear weapons).
Boru
If Ukraine joins NATO, a first strike should never be an option, correct?
Why not? NATO being a defensive organization wouldn’t prevent Ukraine from acting on its own.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 8:47 pm
(September 28, 2022 at 8:41 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 8:29 pm)Jehanne Wrote: If Ukraine joins NATO, a first strike should never be an option, correct?
Why not? NATO being a defensive organization wouldn’t prevent Ukraine from acting on its own.
Boru
A first strike against Russia? How could that ever be justified??
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 8:50 pm
(September 28, 2022 at 8:47 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 8:41 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why not? NATO being a defensive organization wouldn’t prevent Ukraine from acting on its own.
Boru
A first strike against Russia? How could that ever be justified??
I don’t think it could be, but that wasn’t your question.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 8:59 pm
(September 28, 2022 at 8:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 8:47 pm)Jehanne Wrote: A first strike against Russia? How could that ever be justified??
I don’t think it could be, but that wasn’t your question.
Boru
Well, at least we agree on something! The moral of the story is that being a member of NATO is not necessarily an inoculation against bad behavior.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 28, 2022 at 11:35 pm
No, but it lowers the chance significantly.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 29, 2022 at 12:29 am
It's important to talk things out. I'm glad this is happening.
I have thoroughly enjoyed music and novels by Russians. I'd spell them out but damn the consonants. It's sad those artists couldn't work under the freedom of Nashville or Hollywood.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 29, 2022 at 1:19 am
(September 28, 2022 at 8:14 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (September 28, 2022 at 7:06 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Your suggestion exposes these weapons to a quick first strike.
Why would Russia ever have to worry about that??
Setting aside the loaded nature of your question, using the charged word "worry" --
No competent military leaders would risk vital nuclear assets by putting them right on the border where a HIMARS strike (18 more units were delivered today, more than doubling Ukraine's strength there) could take them out very quickly.
Nuclear assets are stationed well behind the lines for several reasons: their innate value as weapons, their specialized maintenance requirements, the cost/benefit of a multimillion-dollar tactical nuke being taken out by a $12,000 artillery shell, that sort of thing.
No competent military would do that ... "competent" being the key word.
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RE: Russia and Ukraine
September 29, 2022 at 1:27 am
(This post was last modified: September 29, 2022 at 1:29 am by Irreligious Atheist.)
I don't think Putin is going to leave Ukraine. His credibility and even his own life is possibly on the line here, so he may not see complete defeat as an option. Can Ukrainians sustain this rate of casualties? 50 deaths in a couple hours. They've fought bravely, but how long can you really keep this up and is this really a sustainable strategy? And will Russian support for the war grow with the 4 annexed areas in Ukraine (that have supposedly now voted to join the Russian Federation) becoming a part of the Russian Federation according to Putin? My position hasn't changed. I still want to see an end to the war.
https://quincyinst.org/2022/09/27/americ...n-ukraine/
A majority of American likely voters support U.S. pursuing negotiations “as soon as possible” to end the war in Ukraine, "even if Ukraine must make some compromises with Russia". Only 32 % somewhat or strongly oppose that idea. So by AF standards, only 32 % are not Putin puppets and have passed the first stage of the purity test.
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