Russia and Ukraine

[Anomalocaris]

My guess is that those on the plane were there bodily only. Scary to think who the other bodies on the plane could be. Hope it's not his family.

This would allow some face saving. Yes, there was a passionate disagreement, but he is a Soldier of Russia and he died with Honor!

i am sure Prigozhin had way more than 8 associates and lieutenants who were in on his plot.   some of them being mercenaries just means even less hassle for Putin to kill them extrajudicially. 

I think in the end many scores, probably hundreds, across wider russian society will be disposed of through extrajudicial means,  including ultra-nationalistic orthodox priests and gadflies with whom Progozhin communicated,  as well any with any influential figures who publically expressed sympathy with Prigozhin during the coup, anyone who hint from further to Putin’s right that Putin has outstayed his welcome is a threat to putin.

paradoxically Putin will probably more brutal to opposition from his right then to those from his left because that’s were more serious and unpredictable threat yo his position will come from.

[LinuxGal]

paradoxically Putin will probably more brutal to opposition from his right then to those from his left because that’s were more serious and unpredictable threat yo his position will come from.

Normally I don't cheer on the death of any human being, but this asshole used to execute people with a sledgehammer and ran the troll farm that put that orange goober in the White House.

[Anomalocaris]

I doubt prigozhin had the sophistication to think of and pull off the troll farm operation, i suspect prigozhin was just a convenient front to give Putin and FSB/KGB deniability.    Prigozhin is just a brutal thug who was in over his head and not smart enough to realize it.

Putin was the manipulator pulling his strings, most of the time, but Putin is not all knowing or or seeing and fucks up frequently, but he is still a few tiers above most of his cronies ion cunning, vision and studied daring. 

i

[LinuxGal]

I doubt prigozhin had the sophistication to think of and pull off the troll farm operation, i suspect prigozhin was just a convenient front to give Putin and FSB/KGB deniability.

After Prigozhin died earlier today Wagner convoys were observed leaving Belarus, heading to Russia. Putin offered to fly them home, but: no.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I doubt prigozhin had the sophistication to think of and pull off the troll farm operation, i suspect prigozhin was just a convenient front to give Putin and FSB/KGB deniability.

After Prigozhin died earlier today Wagner convoys were observed leaving Belarus, heading to Russia. Putin offered to fly them home, but: no.

If this is true, they're all fools -- or powerless. I figured Putin would order Lukashenko to keep them disarmed and encamped. But if they've been rounded up and bussed home, @Anomalocaris is surely right: they will be disappeared. Dumbfucks. They'll die all the same, only not as quickly. There's fingernails to pull and heads to be vised. Names!

On a side note, I'm currently rereading Gulag Archipelago. Plus ça change ...

[Thumpalumpacus]

I doubt prigozhin had the sophistication to think of and pull off the troll farm operation, i suspect prigozhin was just a convenient front to give Putin and FSB/KGB deniability.    Prigozhin is just a brutal thug who was in over his head and not smart enough to realize it.

Putin was the manipulator pulling his strings, most of the time, but Putin is not all knowing or or seeing and fucks up frequently, but he is still a few tiers above most of his cronies ion cunning, vision and studied daring. 

i

He will fall afoul of the sunk-cost fallacy. He's already shown that leaning. Now he's balls-deep in a bear-trap: can't pull out for fear of his regime's survival, can't prosecute this to a win. This is his Afghanistan.

[Thumpalumpacus]

And from Reuters:

Aug 23 (Reuters) - An Embraer (EMBR3.SA) Legacy 600 executive jet, believed to have carried Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin to his death on Wednesday, showed no sign of problem until a precipitous drop in its final 30 seconds, according to flight-tracking data.

Rosaviatsia, Russia's aviation agency said Prigozhin, who led an aborted mutiny in June, was one of 10 people on board the downed plane. It was traveling from Moscow to St. Petersburg when it crashed near the village of Kuzhenkino in the Tver Region, Russia's emergency situations ministry said.

At 3:19 p.m. GMT, the aircraft made a “sudden downward vertical,” said Ian Petchenik of Flightradar24. Within about 30 seconds, the aircraft had plummeted more than 8,000 feet from its cruising altitude of 28,000 feet.

“Whatever happened, happened quickly,” Petchenik said.

“They may have been wrestling (with the aircraft) after whatever happened," Petchenik said. But prior to its dramatic drop, there was "no indication that there was anything wrong with this aircraft.”

Video showed the plane descending rapidly with its nose pointing almost straight downward and a plume of smoke or vapor behind it.

Russian investigators opened a criminal probe to determine what happened. Some unnamed sources told Russian media they believed the plane had been shot down by one or more surface-to-air missiles. Reuters could not confirm that.

Brazilian planemaker Embraer SA (EMBR3.SA) said it had not been providing any service or support in recent years to the plane, which seats around 13.

The company said in a statement it has complied with international sanctions imposed against Russia. The luxury jet was identified on Flightradar24 with registration RA-02795, the same as the plane that carried Prigozhin to Belarus after the mutiny, an industry source familiar with the matter said.

Online flight tracker Flightradar24 last recorded the position of the aircraft at 3:11 p.m. GMT, before the crash. Jamming or interference in the area probably slowed the collection of further location data.

Other data continued for nine minutes. Flightradar24 said the jet went thorough a series of ascents and descents of a few thousand feet each over 30 seconds before its final, disastrous plunge. Flightradar24 received its final data on the jet at 3:20 p.m.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/rus...023-08-24/

Smells like a missile-hit to me. Serious damage, struggling with controls, and then the stress on the airframe brought on catastrophic airframe failure. Looks like a wing took a powder, from the video.

Still no confirmation he was aboard.

[Rev. Rye]

I was expecting poison, but I guess shooting a plane down worked as well for Didi’s purposes.

[Anomalocaris]

I was expecting poison, but I guess shooting a plane down worked as well for Didi’s purposes.

I think putin wanted to use Prigozhin’s death to show the Russian state, which is him, can kill anyone deemed a threat in the open, with violence and impunity, and without resorting to measures which may carry the price of disturbing perceived public stability, such as with changes in laws, over police action, etc.

in the open because it shows one could not gain any measure of safety by remaining in the public eye, with violence because the state is the supreme purveyor of violence so once state violence is show to not be out of bounds, then private violence to destabilize the state like those prigozhin attempted can have no chance of success against the greater violence the state always has at its disposal, and impunity so people would not think putin’s exercise of state violence would be tempered by concern for consequences and retribution.

[Deesse23]

I doubt prigozhin had the sophistication to think of and pull off the troll farm operation, i suspect prigozhin was just a convenient front to give Putin and FSB/KGB deniability.

After Prigozhin died earlier today Wagner convoys were observed leaving Belarus, heading to Russia. Putin offered to fly them home, but: no.

Still: Their vehicles have windows......