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Creating Christ
#21
RE: Creating Christ
To me, the question of whether Caesars invented Jesus is like asking whether the Republican Party invented Jesus. The answer is, of course, "yes", the Republican Party did invent their Jesus, but there are other Jesuses. Their Jesus is not the dominant one in the world.

Now, did Caesars destroy all other Jesuses by destroying other books that portrayed him differently? Possibly. I mean, didn't Constantine have that council where he ordered some guys to figure out who Jesus was?

And the Bible sure reads like some manifesto on how to oppress people by imposing ideas that people must obey their rulers and never question them and that kings are chosen by God.

The New Testament is replete with statements that preach support for the elite under the guise of love, peace, and humility, like Matt. 5:44 "Love your enemies ... and pray for them which despitefully use you"; Luke 6:35 "Love your enemies! Do good to them!"

The New Testament urges individuals to love their opponents, obey their masters, serve them faithfully, and respect their leadership. One of many examples is this verse: 1 Peter 2:18-20 "You servants must submit yourselves to your masters and show them complete respect, not only to those who are kind and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. God will bless you for this, if you endure the pain of undeserved suffering because you are conscious of his will. For what credit is there in enduring the beatings you deserve for having done wrong? But if you endure suffering even when you have done right, God will bless you for it.


As a side note, it is fascinating how much some real people can not only get distorted by mythology but also how the majority of people believes (and wants to believe) mythology instead of reality. One of modern examples is Lee Harvey Oswald. Oswald has evolved from being the lone killer to being part of a conspiracy to being an innocent patsy to being a hero who vainly tried to save the President by warning the FBI of the plot.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#22
RE: Creating Christ
(September 19, 2022 at 10:09 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(September 19, 2022 at 8:59 am)Ranjr Wrote: I like how Jesus has allowed me to voice more expressive swearing.

Where did the 'H' come from, as in "Jesus H. Christ", which is how I curse.

Jesus Hitler Christ  Jerkoff

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#23
RE: Creating Christ
(September 18, 2022 at 2:51 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:
(September 18, 2022 at 12:16 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Everyone is creating Christ. It's a living myth. Like when DaVinci Code popularised the myth that Jesus was part of the Merovingian dynasty. Or people who believe that Jesus lived in India or even Japan, etc.

The Davinci Code is fiction.

But it is based, to a very large extent, on a book called, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail: The Secret History of Christ & The Shocking Legacy of the Grail", which was nonfiction.

And by nonfiction, I am not implying in the least, that it is accurate.

[Image: 135608.jpg]

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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#24
RE: Creating Christ
(September 19, 2022 at 2:13 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:  I mean, didn't Constantine have that council where he ordered some guys to figure out who Jesus was?

-ish.  He didn't give a fuck who jesus was or what theology that entailed, he just wanted them to stop bickering - because division eradicated the whole point of the roman administrative state assuming christianity.

Pick a god, one god, any god, and end it. That was his ask.

The historic version of christianity is a dispute between two wings of a pagan roman family angling for power...both sides long dead...availed them nothing. They just stuck us with it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#25
RE: Creating Christ
(September 29, 2022 at 4:02 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(September 19, 2022 at 2:13 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:  I mean, didn't Constantine have that council where he ordered some guys to figure out who Jesus was?

-ish.  He didn't give a fuck who jesus was or what theology that entailed, he just wanted them to stop bickering - because division eradicated the whole point of the roman administrative state assuming christianity.

Pick a god, one god, any god, and end it.  That was his ask.

The historic version of christianity is a dispute between two wings of a pagan roman family angling for power...both sides long dead...availed them nothing.  They just stuck us with it.

It's disputed what Constantine did or did not actually believe.  Even after his conversion to Catholicism, he still, apparently, continued to practice paganism.  In my opinion, the evidence is that he did convert to Catholicism and that his conversion was sincere, but, he called the council of Nicaea to deal with Arianism, not really giving a damn what Arianism was or wasn't, but, wanting religious unity in the Empire to achieve political unity.  As the head of the Council, he did some arm-twisting to get the handful of Arian bishops to change their minds, which resulted in two Arian bishops refusing to support the Council, along with, of course, Arius himself, all of whom were exiled and excommunicated.
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#26
RE: Creating Christ
(September 29, 2022 at 4:02 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(September 19, 2022 at 2:13 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:  I mean, didn't Constantine have that council where he ordered some guys to figure out who Jesus was?

-ish.  He didn't give a fuck who jesus was or what theology that entailed, he just wanted them to stop bickering - because division eradicated the whole point of the roman administrative state assuming christianity.

Pick a god, one god, any god, and end it. That was his ask.

The historic version of christianity is a dispute between two wings of a pagan roman family angling for power...both sides long dead...availed them nothing. They just stuck us with it.

You said it yourself "pick a god".

After the council, certain beliefs got uniform and formulated as dogma (nature of Jesus), and Christians who did not accept this dogma were persecuted as heretics so that only one version of Jesus prevails. They also forbade and destroyed all other gospels (at least 50) because they held heretical descriptions of Jesus - meaning, different descriptions than those that the council prescribed.
There was the "Edict of Thessalonica" of Theodosius I. Which was a state-sponsored support for legal mechanism to counter what it perceived as 'heresy'. By this edict, in some senses, the line between the Catholic Church's spiritual authority and the Roman State's jurisdiction was blurred. One of the outcomes of this blurring of Church and State was a sharing of State powers of legal enforcement between Church and State authorities, with the state enforcing what it determined to be orthodox teaching.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#27
RE: Creating Christ
(September 29, 2022 at 8:39 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(September 29, 2022 at 4:02 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: -ish.  He didn't give a fuck who jesus was or what theology that entailed, he just wanted them to stop bickering - because division eradicated the whole point of the roman administrative state assuming christianity.

Pick a god, one god, any god, and end it.  That was his ask.

The historic version of christianity is a dispute between two wings of a pagan roman family angling for power...both sides long dead...availed them nothing.  They just stuck us with it.

You said it yourself "pick a god".

After the council, certain beliefs got uniform and formulated as dogma (nature of Jesus), and Christians who did not accept this dogma were persecuted as heretics so that only one version of Jesus prevails. They also forbade and destroyed all other gospels (at least 50) because they held heretical descriptions of Jesus - meaning, different descriptions than those that the council prescribed.
There was the "Edict of Thessalonica" of Theodosius I. Which was a state-sponsored support for legal mechanism to counter what it perceived as 'heresy'. By this edict, in some senses, the line between the Catholic Church's spiritual authority and the Roman State's jurisdiction was blurred. One of the outcomes of this blurring of Church and State was a sharing of State powers of legal enforcement between Church and State authorities, with the state enforcing what it determined to be orthodox teaching.

Remember, of course, that Rome, in the West, fell, and it was not until the High Middle Ages and on into the Early Modern Period that ecclesiastical courts began to arise and that the medieval Inquisitions began to come into place.  The reason that I am saying this is because heresy was a somewhat nebulous concept in medieval Catholicism.  For instance, Giordano Bruno was likely burned at the stake more due to his denial of the Divinity of Christ than his suggestion that there was an infinitude of Worlds.  In addition, Bruno spent 7 years in a Roman Inquisitorial jail before his final condemnation, which was likely participated by him.  And, so, heresy often depended on the heretic and his/her attitude towards the ecclesiastical authority.
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