The issue of Sin

[Leonardo17]

I believe that “sin” is something that is synonymous with “error” or mistake. 90% of those “sins” has to do with the following of guidelines that are given in religious teachings. Those belief systems will (for instance) tell you to respect your elders, love your neighbors, be just, avoid to lie, avoid to steal,forgive the evil that has been done to you, help the poor, follow the rules that have been laid by reason and science (Kuran), follow the teachings of persons “who are totally surrendered to God” (or in modern terms are enlightened – this is another spiritual subject -), not to worship deities other than God, not the consume substances that are harmful for the body etc. etc. And not following these guidelines is described as “sin” or error, and in many cases there is an addition that says “But God is surely very forgiving” or something like this.
   Yet 10 % of these “sins” are what I would call greater sins and the book is overtly cursing such people and telling that are enormous (spiritual) consequences for them. These are using religion for political purpose, using religion for gaining personal advantages, creating alternatives to God or to religious teachings (creating sects in which a given person is veneered as a “divine” or “semi-divine personality”), etc. etc. I am not an expert on the subject. But in the Kuran there are also such “sins” that are really unforgivable in many ways.
   So the simplistic image of a paradise above our head, demons below our feet, and some sins that will lead us to the “flames of hell” is in today’s perspective too simplistic and to middle-ageous for people living in the 21st century who are literate, are educated, have access to books, internet, news channels etc. So I believe that a believer (any believer) has also the duty of doing a certain amount of research and to have an understanding of his / her belief that goes beyond the blind repetition (in a language that he / she doesn’t necessarily understand) of some verses and the systematic realization of some given rituals without knowing or understanding their origin or their true purpose.

I think that there is and that there has to be a shift from a guilt and fear based understanding to a more practical, rational, and self-worth and trust in God based understanding that is more adapted to the realities and possibilities of our modern times.

If I cut a piece of wood too short for a project, this is a mistake and an error. I’m not sure how it qualifies as a sin.

Boru

I was talking in terms of spiritual concepts. It’s useless to debate these concepts if you are not into it. There are some basic principles like karma, spiritual growth and spiritual progress.
 
So similar to the “cutting a piece of wood for my project” example there is a certain cutting a spiritual piece of wood for your spirit project issue (for believers – not for atheists or agnostics of course).

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yup. I can always recut a board. Harder to stretch it.

Boru

Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe, hammer to fit.......

Alternate method: take your time and use the correct tools (hammer not required).

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If I cut a piece of wood too short for a project, this is a mistake and an error. I’m not sure how it qualifies as a sin.

Boru

I was talking in terms of spiritual concepts. It’s useless to debate these concepts if you are not into it. There are some basic principles like karma, spiritual growth and spiritual progress.
 
So similar to the “cutting a piece of wood for my project” example there is a certain cutting a spiritual piece of wood for your spirit project issue (for believers – not for atheists or agnostics of course).

I’ll take your word for it, as I’ve never built an end table out of spiritual wood.

Boru

[Nay_Sayer]

As I'm told, If I don't sin then Jesus died for nothing.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I believe that “sin” is something that is synonymous with “error” or mistake. 90% of those “sins” has to do with the following of guidelines that are given in religious teachings. Those belief systems will (for instance) tell you to respect your elders, love your neighbors, be just, avoid to lie, avoid to steal,forgive the evil that has been done to you, help the poor, follow the rules that have been laid by reason and science (Kuran), follow the teachings of persons “who are totally surrendered to God” (or in modern terms are enlightened – this is another spiritual subject -), not to worship deities other than God, not the consume substances that are harmful for the body etc. etc. And not following these guidelines is described as “sin” or error, and in many cases there is an addition that says “But God is surely very forgiving” or something like this.
   Yet 10 % of these “sins” are what I would call greater sins and the book is overtly cursing such people and telling that are enormous (spiritual) consequences for them. These are using religion for political purpose, using religion for gaining personal advantages, creating alternatives to God or to religious teachings (creating sects in which a given person is veneered as a “divine” or “semi-divine personality”), etc. etc. I am not an expert on the subject. But in the Kuran there are also such “sins” that are really unforgivable in many ways.
   So the simplistic image of a paradise above our head, demons below our feet, and some sins that will lead us to the “flames of hell” is in today’s perspective too simplistic and to middle-ageous for people living in the 21st century who are literate, are educated, have access to books, internet, news channels etc. So I believe that a believer (any believer) has also the duty of doing a certain amount of research and to have an understanding of his / her belief that goes beyond the blind repetition (in a language that he / she doesn’t necessarily understand) of some verses and the systematic realization of some given rituals without knowing or understanding their origin or their true purpose.

I think that there is and that there has to be a shift from a guilt and fear based understanding to a more practical, rational, and self-worth and trust in God based understanding that is more adapted to the realities and possibilities of our modern times.

If I cut a piece of wood too short for a project, this is a mistake and an error. I’m not sure how it qualifies as a sin.

Boru

I think it is about why the short cut happened.

[Angrboda]

If I cut a piece of wood too short for a project, this is a mistake and an error. I’m not sure how it qualifies as a sin.

Boru

I think it is about why the short cut happened.

That seems to require an inherent nature ala the soul. Not sure what I think about that, though it runs contrary to my general thoughts, but it's worth pondering.

[HappySkeptic]

As I'm told, If I don't sin then Jesus died for nothing.

Actually, Jesus died for original sin - something that is built into our DNA from eating a fruit, apparently.  Individual sins still have to be forgiven by the priests.

[Nay_Sayer]

As I'm told, If I don't sin then Jesus died for nothing.

Actually, Jesus died for original sin - something that is built into our DNA from eating a fruit, apparently.  Individual sins still have to be forgiven by the priests.

Well, I wouldn't want to leave those poor priests with nothing to do.


Let Sin-o-mania begin!

[Neo-Scholastic]

I think it is about why the short cut happened.

That seems to require an inherent nature ala the soul. Not sure what I think about that, though it runs contrary to my general thoughts, but it's worth pondering.

IMHO imperfection is the cost of creation. What I mean is that since the classical God is defined as perfection then anything other that God is imperfect. God could not create perfection because anything perfect is God and there can only be one God. So..."The Lord is our God, the Lord is One"...means literally one...that which is singular, whole and complete. Unless finite creatures who are limited and thus prone to error and circumstances. This is the fallen condition...there is always a snake in the garden and it could be no other way if we are to be anything at all. At least in Christianity, we believe that God remedies the fallen condition by participating in it. Anyway, my point is similar to Liebnitz that this is the best of all possible worlds, except that I believe all possible worlds imperfectly manifest the Infinite Perfection.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is that...like..a law of the cosmos that god has to follow..Neo? There can be only one!

.....is that what happened to all the other gods.......?