What do you think about the police?

[The Grand Nudger]

Absolutely, but it's the kind of failure we see repeated under any economic system, which would suggest that it's not caused by a particular economic system.

There's some debate as to why the british government supplied food before, was it humanitarian, or to keep the price of food down? However, Russel shared the opinions common to his time and peers, notably Gray, who stated that ireland was not overpopulated, but underdeveloped, that it didn't lack capital, only the will to create wealth. A nation of shifty beggars, swiftly put. Russel also considered the blight to be an act of providence, meant to improve upon irelands moral failings and as a judgement from the almighty - not to be interfered with. The point of -all- of Russels schemes was emphatically not to let the free market do anything (notably, as above, cause price increases in england - for example), but to place the financial burden of the blight on the lazy irish who had been deemed unworthy by god.

That they leave and go on to be incredibly productive members of a notably prodigious country that eventually overshadows and politically colonizes the british, just underscores how wrong he was about, well...all of it. I think the fact that we've essentially allowed filthy murderous bigots to call their pet projects "capitalism" has alot to do with how people feel about capitlaism, and why "capitalism" isn't working for us. Similar to why communism hasn't ever worked for us - we've never really given it a genuine shot.

(...and, ofc, in fairness, the english government also had people who understood in their own time that no right thinking person from any future would buy a single line of the bullshit excuses they were selling to arrive at a predetermined goal - that it would come to be seen as a very intentional and particularly cynical attempt at genocide, whose failure served to underline, even more, the incompetence of the actors involved...)

[The Architect Of Fate]

Of course, but the flawed statistical system would not have such disasterous results in a free market system. The flawed statistical system only had such disasterous results because the communist government tried to accomplish equal distribution of grain, by stealing grain from the people on villages who supposedly had a lot of grain. In a free market system, the people on villages would be allowed to keep some of the grain they had, so they would not have starved. How do you manage to miss the point completely like that?

Once again the statistical system had nothing to do with Communism. So this whole little rant is pointless....

[The Architect Of Fate]

What mechanism are you proposing for capitalism to cause famines?

Commodification obviously .....

You clearly know nothing about this subject and are just flailing any response you can field.....

[The Architect Of Fate]

Just replace "capitalism" with its definition, "voluntary exchange of goods and services", you will realize how silly you sound. Forced exports of food is capitalism?!

Capitalism can be as involuntary as any system. Forced food export as commodification is as capitalist as wall street. You are making up imaginary definitions to get capitalism off the hook for the suffering it's caused.

[FlatAssembler]

Of course, but the flawed statistical system would not have such disasterous results in a free market system. The flawed statistical system only had such disasterous results because the communist government tried to accomplish equal distribution of grain, by stealing grain from the people on villages who supposedly had a lot of grain. In a free market system, the people on villages would be allowed to keep some of the grain they had, so they would not have starved. How do you manage to miss the point completely like that?

Once again the statistical system had nothing to do with Communism. So this whole little rant is pointless....

Any realistic communist society relies on a working statistical system. That's how you would accomplish equal distribution of food. How else would you do that? Such a failure of a statistical system is not only unlikely to happen in a capitalist society (as capitalist societies usually value free speech), but it also would not have such disasterous consequences in it (as capitalism does not rely on a statistical system to work).

In all seriousness though, this conversation is getting ridiculous. I mean, the Irish Potato Famine was caused by British government issuing racist laws preventing Catholics from owning more than a small amount of land, so Catholics cultivated what they could profitably cultivate on a small amount of land: potato. So, because of those racist laws, Ireland was dependent on potato for food. When a disease came that killed all potato, the British government forced Ireland to massively export the little food they had. And you are blaming capitalism (the lack of government intervention in the economy) for the famine. Come on now!

[The Architect Of Fate]

Any realistic communist society relies on a working statistical system. That's how you would accomplish equal distribution of food. How else would you do that? Such a failure of a statistical system is not only unlikely to happen in a capitalist society (as capitalist societies usually value free speech), but it also would not have such disasterous consequences in it (as capitalism does not rely on a statistical system to work).

statistical system has nothing to do with Communism and this rant of yours does not demonstrate otherwise 

In all seriousness though, this conversation is getting ridiculous. I mean, the Irish Potato Famine was caused by British government issuing racist laws preventing Catholics from owning more than a small amount of land, so Catholics cultivated what they could profitably cultivate on a small amount of land: potato. So, because of those racist laws, Ireland was dependent on potato for food. When a disease came that killed all potato, the British government forced Ireland to massively export the little food they had. And you are blaming capitalism (the lack of government intervention in the economy) for the famine. Come on now!

You are right it is ridiculous that you think your statement here refutes the fact the famine was caused by the commodification of food. Because it doesn't...


You have written a great deal to say nothing .....

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Once again the statistical system had nothing to do with Communism. So this whole little rant is pointless....

Any realistic communist society relies on a working statistical system. That's how you would accomplish equal distribution of food. How else would you do that? Such a failure of a statistical system is not only unlikely to happen in a capitalist society (as capitalist societies usually value free speech), but it also would not have such disasterous consequences in it (as capitalism does not rely on a statistical system to work).

In all seriousness though, this conversation is getting ridiculous. I mean, the Irish Potato Famine was caused by British government issuing racist laws preventing Catholics from owning more than a small amount of land, so Catholics cultivated what they could profitably cultivate on a small amount of land: potato. So, because of those racist laws, Ireland was dependent on potato for food. When a disease came that killed all potato, the British government forced Ireland to massively export the little food they had. And you are blaming capitalism (the lack of government intervention in the economy) for the famine. Come on now!

Surely even you - pig ignorant as your - aren’t claiming that the UK in the mid 19th century was anything OTHER than a capitalist economy?

Boru

[FlatAssembler]

Any realistic communist society relies on a working statistical system. That's how you would accomplish equal distribution of food. How else would you do that? Such a failure of a statistical system is not only unlikely to happen in a capitalist society (as capitalist societies usually value free speech), but it also would not have such disasterous consequences in it (as capitalism does not rely on a statistical system to work).

In all seriousness though, this conversation is getting ridiculous. I mean, the Irish Potato Famine was caused by British government issuing racist laws preventing Catholics from owning more than a small amount of land, so Catholics cultivated what they could profitably cultivate on a small amount of land: potato. So, because of those racist laws, Ireland was dependent on potato for food. When a disease came that killed all potato, the British government forced Ireland to massively export the little food they had. And you are blaming capitalism (the lack of government intervention in the economy) for the famine. Come on now!

Surely even you - pig ignorant as your - aren’t claiming that the UK in the mid 19th century was anything OTHER than a capitalist economy?

Boru

Obviously not. It was an empirialist economy. Empirialism is not capitalism, in fact, it may very well be considered to be the opposite of capitalism. And it had a government that was racist against Catholics (not allowing Catholics in Ireland to have a lot of land), so the rule of law was not respected. Racism means no equality before the law, thus significantly less economic freedom.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Obviously not. It was an empirialist economy. Empirialism is not capitalism, in fact, it may very well be considered to be the opposite of capitalism. And it had a government that was racist against Catholics (not allowing Catholics in Ireland to have a lot of land), so the rule of law was not respected. Racism means no equality before the law, thus significantly less economic freedom

Again your ignorance is flipping hilarious 

[The Architect Of Fate]

Any realistic communist society relies on a working statistical system. That's how you would accomplish equal distribution of food. How else would you do that? Such a failure of a statistical system is not only unlikely to happen in a capitalist society (as capitalist societies usually value free speech), but it also would not have such disasterous consequences in it (as capitalism does not rely on a statistical system to work).

In all seriousness though, this conversation is getting ridiculous. I mean, the Irish Potato Famine was caused by British government issuing racist laws preventing Catholics from owning more than a small amount of land, so Catholics cultivated what they could profitably cultivate on a small amount of land: potato. So, because of those racist laws, Ireland was dependent on potato for food. When a disease came that killed all potato, the British government forced Ireland to massively export the little food they had. And you are blaming capitalism (the lack of government intervention in the economy) for the famine. Come on now!

Surely even you - pig ignorant as your - aren’t claiming that the UK in the mid 19th century was anything OTHER than a capitalist economy?

Boru

The mental gymnastics this guy will ploy is freaking amazing.