Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

[Jehanne]

Just learned about this today, and it was a complete shocker:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

For those who do not wish to read the article, here's their take:

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT[A]) is an environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction in order to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of humankind. VHEMT supports human extinction primarily because, in the group's view, it would prevent environmental degradation. The group states that a decrease in the human population would prevent a significant amount of human-caused suffering. The extinctions of non-human species and the scarcity of resources caused by humans are frequently cited by the group as evidence of the harm caused by human overpopulation.

Personally, I think that it is disgusting, akin almost to "Heaven's Gate" and "The People's Temple" and even Nazism.  As the only species with symbolic language, I believe that the highest goal of Humanity should be our survival as a species and the full retention of all of our history, knowledge and culture, for as long as possible.  Even though I sympathize with the environmental movement, life on our World is destined to perish, along with our Sun.  Any memory of that life (and, perhaps, that life itself) will be with Us, perhaps carrying it off this World and to other worlds and new solar systems.

And, so, from a philosophical POV, are the VHEMT adherents just a bunch of nuts?  Or, should we embrace their ideology, as Humanity, likely, someday, must perish either on this World or among the stars?

[Anomalocaris]

Just learned about this today, and it was a complete shocker:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

For those who do not wish to read the article, here's their take:

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT[A]) is an environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction in order to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of humankind. VHEMT supports human extinction primarily because, in the group's view, it would prevent environmental degradation. The group states that a decrease in the human population would prevent a significant amount of human-caused suffering. The extinctions of non-human species and the scarcity of resources caused by humans are frequently cited by the group as evidence of the harm caused by human overpopulation.

Personally, I think that it is disgusting, akin almost to "Heaven's Gate" and "The People's Temple" and even Nazism.  As the only species with symbolic language, I believe that the highest goal of Humanity should be our survival as a species and the full retention of all of our history, knowledge and culture, for as long as possible.  Even though I sympathize with the environmental movement, life on our World is destined to perish, along with our Sun.  Any memory of that life (and, perhaps, that life itself) will be with Us, perhaps carrying it off this World and to other worlds and new solar systems.

And, so, from a philosophical POV, are the VHEMT adherents just a bunch of nuts?  Or, should we embrace their ideology, as Humanity, likely, someday, must perish either on this World or among the stars?

I, on the other hand, find it praise worthy that they should take positive steps towards improving the human gene pool through their self elimination,

[Rev. Rye]

I wouldn’t be worried about VHEMT until their actions to make the human race go extinct go beyond self-sterilization and choosing to not have kids. Or at least until they start building actual compounds.

Full disclosure, I’m not a member of VHEMT, but I do consider myself a sympathizer. Living a shitty childhood and becoming a devotee of Schopenhauer probably helps.

[Jehanne]

I wouldn’t be worried about VHEMT until their actions to make the human race go extinct go beyond self-sterilization and choosing to not have kids. Or at least until they start building actual compounds.

Full disclosure, I’m not a member of VHEMT, but I do consider myself a sympathizer. Living a shitty childhood and becoming a devotee of Schopenhauer probably helps.

If enough of them got into power, the thought that the memory of Adolf Hitler and what the Nazis did being rehabilitated is ghastly. What, specifically, is there to "sympathize" with?

[The Grand Nudger]

Personally, I think that it is disgusting, akin almost to "Heaven's Gate" and "The People's Temple" and even Nazism.  

There's this huge problem, and it's hard...so Imma off myself..and suggest everyone ought to off themselves, too.... rather than work at it.  So much for the unbreakable human spirit, lol.

[Jehanne]

I'm skeptical of things like controlled nuclear fusion, but, such is possible and distinguished minds continue to work at the problem. In any case, just "giving up" is insanity on parade, and to be sure, many human beings will refuse to do so. Question is if the VHEMT folks gain real power and our World is faced with a Second Holocaust that is even worse than the First. VHEMT could easily morph into a new neo-Nazi movement and the Third Reich could turn into the Fourth. Given the fascist elements in Society, we could endup denying this nightmare only until we are overcome and consumed by it.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't think we have to go as far as hypothetical vhemt nazis. There's no shortage of shitty ideas informed by base misanthropy (and any number of creatively curated "facts") that harm people while simultaneously failing to produce the desired outcomes. Bottom of it all, though, and running with the idea that we've made a mess..well, those messes won't go away just because we do. The idea that we should blip out is roughly equivalent to shitting in the planets living room and fucking off, rather than at least cleaning it up -before- we fuck off. I do think there's something admirable in being self ciritical..and self aware enough, to consider the cost to environment of the human animal. We don't tend to see trees the same way, though, even as they once (and continue to) poisoned the atmosphere so comprehensively that it lead to a mass extinction. We might notice that it sounded a bit off to, on the basis of this, advocate for the elimination of trees. I think it boils down to seeing ourselves as apart from nature, somehow, and so our effects on nature are an abrogation of nature rather than a continuation thereof. I disagree with that, obvs.

We're a big pile of uneaten food, we honestly aren't going to have to wait very long for that situation to resolve into something else..that's how we got here, as we are.. in the first place.... FWIW, if we care about the earth so much that we consider such a drastic action - we might want to spend some time considering the implications of earth losing the only species we're aware of that can be, or even cares to be, some sort of responsible custodian of the planetary garden. On that note, I wonder whether we'd give a shit at all if we hadn't coevolved (or been colonized by) all these yummy grasses and flowers.

[Rev. Rye]

I wouldn’t be worried about VHEMT until their actions to make the human race go extinct go beyond self-sterilization and choosing to not have kids. Or at least until they start building actual compounds.

Full disclosure, I’m not a member of VHEMT, but I do consider myself a sympathizer. Living a shitty childhood and becoming a devotee of Schopenhauer probably helps.

If enough of them got into power, the thought that the memory of Adolf Hitler and what the Nazis did being rehabilitated is ghastly. What, specifically, is there to "sympathize" with?

For what it's worth, the official VHEMT website has a pretty comprehensive FAQ that should quash any fears that VHEMT supports Hitler. When asked if they're pro-Hitler, they reply: "Well, if you mean the medals for motherhood and warehouse nurseries full of babies for war and industry, or if you mean outlawing abortion, or forced sterilization of undesirables, or mass murder, then the answer is simply, “No.”" Bear in mind that the flip side to the mass murder of Jews and other undesirables is the Lebensborn program, something that I'd be legit shocked if VHEMT wouldn't balk at. And from what I've seen of the alt-right, they're very much in the forced birth camp.

And, of course, the mass murder isn't something they support, either. There's a TL;DR for one question that explains "SUMMARY: Increasing human deaths will not improve population density. Many people are advocating an increase in the death rate to reduce human population numbers. However, increased death has historically increased births. Promoting reproductive freedom, economic opportunity, and education will shrink our masses faster and nicer." Even the deaths of 80 million people, well beyond any estimate for World War II (the single bloodiest event in human history) as a whole, would only knock off one year's worth of growth.

For what it's worth, they actually answer the question of what would happen if they ever ended up in power. At least for North America, members seem to most support bribing people to not have kids.

And before you ask if maybe it'd be better to solve the problems at hand rather than just hope we make ourselves extinct, I'd like to remind you that even the most optimistic estimates for global warming say that the problem requires drastic action in a very short amount of time. This might not be enough of a deal breaker on its own, but bear in mind that America (one of the biggest carbon emitters) has a major political party that has made abundantly clear that they do not care about the coming climate apocalypse and are doing everything they can to undermine any and all action to lower carbon emissions. In a world where major political leaders are saying shit like this:



Yes, I can reasonably say it's probably more feasible to expect that the human race will voluntarily choose extinction than actually make the effort to stop global warming.

[The Grand Nudger]

And before you ask if maybe it'd be better to solve the problems at hand rather than just hope we make ourselves extinct, I'd like to remind you that even the most optimistic estimates for global warming say that the problem requires drastic action in a very short amount of time.

That's for our sake, not the earths.  We can take as long as it takes to repair whatever we can if we're not committed to privileging human life.  Nobody gives a fuck when the con on community service is uncomfortable - hell, we think that's kind of the point. I think, as you mentioned when you said you were sympathetic, I'm sympathetic too - to the cause of the idea - I just think they may have drifted off the pavement and crashed the car in a ditch from the weight of thinking about it all.

So we shit in the living room. Okay, clean it up, even if it takes awhile, even if it's a shitty job. Running from it is not only ignorant and pointless, it's abject cowardice and escapism. I mean...fuck it, can't keep runners from running, but there ought to be at least a few of us willing to sweep the floors and turn the lights off, last man out. Bare minimum, folks..bare minimum. If we don't owe the planet that much, we sure as hell don't owe it ritual suicide.

[Objectivist]

Just learned about this today, and it was a complete shocker:

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

For those who do not wish to read the article, here's their take:

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT[A]) is an environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction in order to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of humankind. VHEMT supports human extinction primarily because, in the group's view, it would prevent environmental degradation. The group states that a decrease in the human population would prevent a significant amount of human-caused suffering. The extinctions of non-human species and the scarcity of resources caused by humans are frequently cited by the group as evidence of the harm caused by human overpopulation.

Personally, I think that it is disgusting, akin almost to "Heaven's Gate" and "The People's Temple" and even Nazism.  As the only species with symbolic language, I believe that the highest goal of Humanity should be our survival as a species and the full retention of all of our history, knowledge and culture, for as long as possible.  Even though I sympathize with the environmental movement, life on our World is destined to perish, along with our Sun.  Any memory of that life (and, perhaps, that life itself) will be with Us, perhaps carrying it off this World and to other worlds and new solar systems.

And, so, from a philosophical POV, are the VHEMT adherents just a bunch of nuts?  Or, should we embrace their ideology, as Humanity, likely, someday, must perish either on this World or among the stars?

I've always thought that radical environmentalists are not pro-planet but anti-man.  I think today's environmental problems will be solved by tomorrow's technology because who wants to live in a dirty, polluted environment?  That is they will be solved if we don't destroy the world's economy by prematurely ending oil and gas use.  When people are desperate to survive they don't really care if they kill and eat the last wildebeest or gazelle and they don't worry about overfishing.