Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 21, 2024, 9:58 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
#1
Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
In the Old Testament, God is mean and kills everybody. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone.

But in the New Testament, God is suddenly nice and tells us to be nice to everybody. Jesus is basically nice to the point of wimpiness, telling us to turn the other cheek when somebody strikes one of our cheeks. In fact, the only time where Jesus ever becomes mean is John 8:44, where  Jesus attacks the Old Testament God. (Jesus' infamous anti-Semitic rant where he claims that the Old Testament God is actually Satan and the Jews are actually Satan worshippers.)

So why did God have such a makeover in the New Testament?
Reply
#2
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
New Testament God is infinitely worse than the Old. In the Old there is no threat of eternal pain. Jehovah had no eternal prison, no everlasting fire. His hatred ended at the grave. His revenge was satisfied when his enemy was dead.

In the New Testament, death is not the end, but the beginning of punishment that has no end. In the New Testament the malice of God is infinite and the hunger of his revenge eternal.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Reply
#3
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
I'd state the reasoning is open to interpretation. Choose whichever version connects with you.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Reply
#4
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
(January 24, 2023 at 1:31 am)Hi600 Wrote: In the Old Testament, God is mean and kills everybody. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone.

But in the New Testament, God is suddenly nice and tells us to be nice to everybody. Jesus is basically nice to the point of wimpiness, telling us to turn the other cheek when somebody strikes one of our cheeks. In fact, the only time where Jesus ever becomes mean is John 8:44, where  Jesus attacks the Old Testament God. (Jesus' infamous anti-Semitic rant where he claims that the Old Testament God is actually Satan and the Jews are actually Satan worshippers.)

So why did God have such a makeover in the New Testament?

There are a number of different ways that Christians answer this question. 

One way I've heard is, granted, not fair to the Jews, but it is compatible with what gets said in the NT. 

The 613 mitzvot (commandments) in the OT are detailed prescriptions for how to handle detailed legal issues. For example, what happens if your neighbor's cow eats your grapes. Despite the large number of rules, however, no specific set of laws can cover every possible moral issue in the world. It also leaves the follower open to the criticism of legalism -- that one merely has to follow the letter of the law and not its spirit, so that there will always be loopholes and ways to do what you want that don't seem very ethical, because none of the 613 addresses exactly the situation you're in. 

(The Jews, of course, deny these criticisms -- they'll point out for example that the commandment not to work on the Sabbath is not absolute -- if someone is sick then the ambulance driver ought to go to work. People's well-being may overrule the mitzvot. So the accusation of legalism is, to them, unfair.)

What happens in the NT is that Jesus says he has come to "fulfill" these mitzvot. Many interpret this to mean that instead of a detailed adherence to the letter of the laws, we are to obey the main spirit behind them. This is identified in the NT as the "Great Commandment":

Quote:"'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. Love God above all else. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

— Matthew 22:35-40

Though the sense of all the OT commandments are boiled down to two, in fact these two are harder to keep. If the commandments are detailed and specific you know if you've kept them or not. But if the commandments are so general -- "love everybody" -- one is left in doubt as to whether one has done enough. 

I've heard the difference compared to the instructions you give a little child compared to what you say to an older person. To a kindergarten student, you give specifics: "don't get in anybody's car; don't speak to strangers; don't go into any stores on the way home; don't take candy from strangers." These are detailed rules because a small child won't be able to make good judgments for himself. If we just say "be safe" to such a small child, that's not enough, because they don't know how to be safe. Older children, however, are more capable of making judgments about what is and isn't safe. For them, the letter of the law is less important than the general goal. So the OT laws are what you'd tell to beginners, while the NT is for those who make their own judgments. 

Again, it's rude to the Jews to describe them as child-like. But this is a common Christian interpretation. 

There is also a long-running unofficial position among Christians, that the God of the OT is a different character from that of the NT. The Pope considers this a heresy, but many interesting Christians (e.g. William Blake) have held this position.
Reply
#5
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
(January 24, 2023 at 1:31 am)Hi600 Wrote: In the Old Testament, God is mean and kills everybody. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone.

But in the New Testament, God is suddenly nice and tells us to be nice to everybody. Jesus is basically nice to the point of wimpiness, telling us to turn the other cheek when somebody strikes one of our cheeks. In fact, the only time where Jesus ever becomes mean is John 8:44, where  Jesus attacks the Old Testament God. (Jesus' infamous anti-Semitic rant where he claims that the Old Testament God is actually Satan and the Jews are actually Satan worshippers.)

So why did God have such a makeover in the New Testament?

Because the political climate was markedly different. When the OT was compiled, Israelites were violent and vengeful, so God was violent and vengeful. When the NT was being forged (no pun intended), Jews under Rome were - in their view, at least - an oppressed minority with no hope of throwing off the Roman yoke, so they came up with a God that counseled suffering and patience in hope of a future reward.

John 8:44 is not an 'anti-Semitic rant'. At most, it is an anti-Pharisaic rant. Jesus isn't claiming that the OTG is Satan, but that the Pharisees have been seduced by the devil (this is a common tactic of religious psychopathic fanatics: 'You disagree with me, therefore you are evil.').

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Reply
#6
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
(January 24, 2023 at 3:52 am)Belacqua Wrote:



There is also a long-running unofficial position among Christians, that the God of the OT is a different character from that of the NT. The Pope considers this a heresy, but many interesting Christians (e.g. William Blake) have held this position.

I agree, they are both characters.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply
#7
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
(January 24, 2023 at 1:31 am)Hi600 Wrote: In the Old Testament, God is mean and kills everybody. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone.

But in the New Testament, God is suddenly nice and tells us to be nice to everybody. Jesus is basically nice to the point of wimpiness, telling us to turn the other cheek when somebody strikes one of our cheeks. In fact, the only time where Jesus ever becomes mean is John 8:44, where  Jesus attacks the Old Testament God. (Jesus' infamous anti-Semitic rant where he claims that the Old Testament God is actually Satan and the Jews are actually Satan worshippers.)

So why did God have such a makeover in the New Testament?

Historically?  Because the people involved in cobbling together christian canon didn't believe in the same god or the same covenant or that they were the same people anymore.  Most notably, marcion, who produced the first nt and gave the folks he would later break with (and be called a heretic by) the very idea to do so and to form an identity around this body of work wholly separate from a jewish identity.  He very explicitly believed that jesus was a new and different and better god.  Made Paul™ famous, too. Others were more nervous about the potential loss of the borrowed ladder - and that's been pretty much the status quo since. Leaving us with a theology that claims continuity and a magic book that tries to establish a break.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#8
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
(January 24, 2023 at 1:47 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(January 24, 2023 at 1:31 am)Hi600 Wrote: In the Old Testament, God is mean and kills everybody. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, bone for bone.

But in the New Testament, God is suddenly nice and tells us to be nice to everybody. Jesus is basically nice to the point of wimpiness, telling us to turn the other cheek when somebody strikes one of our cheeks. In fact, the only time where Jesus ever becomes mean is John 8:44, where  Jesus attacks the Old Testament God. (Jesus' infamous anti-Semitic rant where he claims that the Old Testament God is actually Satan and the Jews are actually Satan worshippers.)

So why did God have such a makeover in the New Testament?

Historically?  Because the people involved in cobbling together christian canon didn't believe in the same god or the same covenant or that they were the same people anymore.  Most notably, marcion, who produced the first nt and gave the folks he would later break with (and be called a heretic by) the very idea to do so and to form an identity around this body of work wholly separate from a jewish identity.  He very explicitly believed that jesus was a new and different and better god.  Made Paul™ famous, too.  Others were more nervous about the potential loss of the borrowed ladder - and that's been pretty much the status quo since.  Leaving us with a theology that claims continuity and a magic book that tries to establish a break.


Probably correct
Reply
#9
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
[Image: 4JoEPbaK_o.jpg]
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Reply
#10
RE: Why did God get such a makeover in the New Testament?
(January 24, 2023 at 1:37 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: New Testament God is infinitely worse than the Old. In the Old there is no threat of eternal pain. Jehovah had no eternal prison, no everlasting fire. His hatred ended at the grave. His revenge was satisfied when his enemy was dead.

In the New Testament, death is not the end, but the beginning of punishment that has no end. In the New Testament the malice of God is infinite and the hunger of his revenge eternal.

This is pretty much what I was going to post. You beat me to it.

And stating that the NT god is "infinitely worse" than the OT god, is not hyperbole. Infinite punishment for finite crimes, is definitionally, "infinitely worse".

It would be hard to imagine a worse universe to live in, than one where the Bible gods actually existed.

It is a universe, with hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with at least a 100 billion stars, the vast majority of which have planets (5297 at latest count), all 'created' as a giant 'soul filtering machine', just to determine how many souls get to spend eternity with Yahweh.

And all it seems to take to get filtered out, is to doubt said god exists. A thought crime.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Why did Communists promote Evolution? Nishant Xavier 318 26248 September 7, 2023 at 5:48 pm
Last Post: Simon Moon
  Did anyone else get deconverted by a single sentence? Astonished 67 11686 July 20, 2023 at 4:29 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Atheists: Why did female with fat butts and short legs exist? Lambe7 14 2460 July 30, 2020 at 7:17 am
Last Post: Gwaithmir
  Why did I (an atheist) legally change my name to "God"? GodBennett 33 4310 July 17, 2020 at 5:49 am
Last Post: Porcupine
  Why did I (an atheist) change my name legally to "God"? GodBennett 0 3317 July 4, 2020 at 10:13 am
Last Post: GodBennett
  How come there arent many atheists such as Bill Maher Roeki 30 9573 July 6, 2017 at 3:10 am
Last Post: Ben Davis
  ☢The Theistic Response➼ to Atheists saying, "It Doesn't mean God Did it" The Joker 195 29011 November 24, 2016 at 7:30 pm
Last Post: I_am_not_mafia
  Why and How Did you Kill God? ScienceAf 67 13590 August 28, 2016 at 11:19 pm
Last Post: Arkilogue
  When, Where, How and Why did you become Atheist? bambi_swag 122 33611 October 18, 2015 at 6:26 pm
Last Post: robvalue
  Why did you come to this board? Kingpin 131 24875 August 18, 2015 at 8:38 am
Last Post: ignoramus



Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)